Snow Angel seems a bit wrong to me in PvP play. I was recently hit by one when playing last while having a tower shield, an 80% ice shield, a 70% ice shield, and 50% off triple balance shield on me. The initial ding did 2 points damage and the first ice hit after over 1600 damage, and another over 1600 damage the next round, at which point I was dead. I keep thinking that if fire school had hit me with their dragon their subsequent per turn damage would be next to nothing with shields upon me.
On a side note, when my storm hits with storm lord even on critical and deals over 4,000 damage I still notice that some people without shields manage to take only low hundreds. I look at their character sheets and they read that the player has somewhere around 30 to 40% storm resist, and I can't figure out why they take only 10% or so of my damage. Snow Angel per turn damage just seems over powered for a school that is supposed to be less damage than both storm and fire, not that I am against ice having snow angel as I believe they need it, but I don't like how its per turn damage is programmed.
Finally someone posted this! Yes they are over power, first hit does 1,400 damage next hit does around 800 damage and next does same amount!
Basically Storm is dead after the first two hits. A storm can hit with leviathan up 2,000 damage, that's not even enough to kill ice wizard who's health is up to 3,000. On top of that they have resistance and tower shields.
My opinion, Storm should get a little more Health so everything can be balance. If ice can do more damage then Storm should get more health that's how i look at it.
Snow angel is 10 points weaker than Medusa. Ice doesn't even get really high attack boost from their gear.
The problem arises when snow angel is charged up with gargantuan and your ice wizard has a 3 blade stack plus an ice bubble. That will without question wipe anyone out. Weaknes isn't enough by itself, even with a 30% weakness on top of it you would be hit for something around 700 damage per turn. I feel bad for wizards who don't have earthquake.
Yes it's overpowered, especially for 4v4. Ices can stack snow angel with a full ice team. With full power pips, they can "double dose" the ice angel spell and use it twice with each stacking 2 1000 damage per round over time auras on you.
I'm feeling snarky today so I apologize if my tone is a bit raw. However, will this topic never end? We get it. No other school likes to see an ice wizard ever do a high amount of damage despite the many, many rounds and tricks it takes to build up to it or the many, many opportunities one has to stop it. The following is my opinion, and the "ice spell overpowered" threads have me frustrated, so be warned before you read on:
Since many ice wizards have clearly taken a page out of the storm "high damage" handbook or the fire "damage over time" book, how about others take a page out of the ice handbook and actually bother to shield? Lay down at least 2 of the SAME kind of ice shield before you stack another. Keep other shields (especially towers) in hand so that if you see snow angel, you can cut its damage at least in half on the following two rounds... or craft "super healing" athame and ring and cast a couple of "super" sprites. You could also use two types of weakness... a standard weakness and a treasure (or amulet) weakness together reduce damage by 47.5%. Try to combine that with any of the other methods already mentioned. Of course, you could always go with high resistance arena gear, or for fire and storm, level 58 gear with super high ice resistance. Or, even better... how about a 1 pip ice dispel which is just sitting at the bazaar waiting for buyers? Spam 5 or 6 of those bad boys and ice isn't doing anything for a while.
In summary, I don't think Snow angel is overpowered. I think its different, you need to be aware of the difference, and you need to plan for that difference. Its easy to see coming, and its easy to stop it, particularly from first position where a well timed dispel makes all the difference. However, ALL ice spells require a LOT of blades to do significant damage, and you rarely see an ice wizard who sacrifices resistance for critical chance, particularly now that so many have the "lifeforce" blade which makes it EXTREMELY difficult to have a successful crit. Every school has something that can be difficult to defend against. However in all of the threads I've read about any school (ice included) being "overpowered", all I see is a resistance to change your playstyle, not an actual problem. This is my opinion on the topic.
No, snow angel is not overpowered, it is, simply put, a properly set up damage over time spell. It is supposed to shred through shields, that is why it is a damage over time spell!
Now, come wintertusk update, the only advantage that ice will have, is high health, and maybe a higher critical block...
There are also ways then to neutralize the damage of snow angel, for 0 pips at that! So, what more do you want? a cookie?
I'm feeling snarky today so I apologize if my tone is a bit raw. However, will this topic never end? We get it. No other school likes to see an ice wizard ever do a high amount of damage despite the many, many rounds and tricks it takes to build up to it or the many, many opportunities one has to stop it. The following is my opinion, and the "ice spell overpowered" threads have me frustrated, so be warned before you read on:
Since many ice wizards have clearly taken a page out of the storm "high damage" handbook or the fire "damage over time" book, how about others take a page out of the ice handbook and actually bother to shield? Lay down at least 2 of the SAME kind of ice shield before you stack another. Keep other shields (especially towers) in hand so that if you see snow angel, you can cut its damage at least in half on the following two rounds... or craft "super healing" athame and ring and cast a couple of "super" sprites. You could also use two types of weakness... a standard weakness and a treasure (or amulet) weakness together reduce damage by 47.5%. Try to combine that with any of the other methods already mentioned. Of course, you could always go with high resistance arena gear, or for fire and storm, level 58 gear with super high ice resistance. Or, even better... how about a 1 pip ice dispel which is just sitting at the bazaar waiting for buyers? Spam 5 or 6 of those bad boys and ice isn't doing anything for a while.
In summary, I don't think Snow angel is overpowered. I think its different, you need to be aware of the difference, and you need to plan for that difference. Its easy to see coming, and its easy to stop it, particularly from first position where a well timed dispel makes all the difference. However, ALL ice spells require a LOT of blades to do significant damage, and you rarely see an ice wizard who sacrifices resistance for critical chance, particularly now that so many have the "lifeforce" blade which makes it EXTREMELY difficult to have a successful crit. Every school has something that can be difficult to defend against. However in all of the threads I've read about any school (ice included) being "overpowered", all I see is a resistance to change your playstyle, not an actual problem. This is my opinion on the topic.
players do take time to shield, but they can't when they are stunned or constantly hit by earthquake or ever attacked by DoT spells that prevent them from having such shields up... for all of these reasons shielding becomes a bit useless especially when your health is too low to begin with and your resists are either low or have major holes in them such as with storm of whom's damage is laughable given that many schools have high storm resist on their best gear
Snow Angel would be about right if sheilds reduced its DoT damage in the same way as they do with fire's dragon, but they don't.
Gtar you know we been arguing the same side forever and i gotta say here it is again. other schools are just to ignorant to actually see ice as a challenge, Ice has been and is still the worst school in the game its take forever to make legendary, you dont get any good spells, and even if you have good health and shields because everyone else can still do amazing damage. For one why do we have to answer at all to your laziness if your storm stack up on the ice shields you can have more than one shield up or use leviathan to get rid of blades on the ice. If your fire use efreet, because unlike ice you guys get a great spell that puts a minus 90% damage to a spell. Myth of course can earthquake all our blades away. If your life you can literally heal throught it. Balance can stack weaknesses and elemental shields to make it a complete waste. Death has plague or you can beguile to make it useless. Ya see ice is so easy to beat i'm sick and tired of listening to lazy players whine about ice. You see how overpowered all other schools are ice doesnt get that stuff you guys do so use it instead of thinking you can just one shot a person all the time, and what can ice do to block that stuff nothing lol we just have to pray we get a tower when your ready to blast half our health with not even a blade
players do take time to shield, but they can't when they are stunned or constantly hit by earthquake or ever attacked by DoT spells that prevent them from having such shields up... for all of these reasons shielding becomes a bit useless especially when your health is too low to begin with and your resists are either low or have major holes in them such as with storm of whom's damage is laughable given that many schools have high storm resist on their best gear
Snow Angel would be about right if sheilds reduced its DoT damage in the same way as they do with fire's dragon, but they don't.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing you have described is any different than strategies you could expect from any team. I see a lot of players cast DIFFERENT types of ice shields. I rarely see them cast the same kind to block ice DoTs. Additionally, what is your team (that I'm assuming has lots of storm on it) doing the whole time ice is adding blades? Typical ice gear only gives them a 28% damage boost and with that gear they rarely critical. Therefore, they need a MINIMUM of 5 blades to get to the 1600 per round damage (assuming a treasure gargantuan) you describe in your original post and more realistically, 6 (depending on the configuration they use). This also assumes that you never hit them with some sort of weakness, plague, etc, and that you don't have any ice resistance. The point is that they can never do it quickly.
I don't know what super wizards you are playing, but storm damage is never laughable. With comparable gear, (typical storm boost of 63% vs. typical ice resist of 37%) storm is still boosting by about 3% above base damage with no shields or traps. Higher resistance to storm requires pets (whose values you won't typically see when you look at other wizard's stats) or gear compromises which will generally leave them open to myth damage for which you have a prism. You (storm) also have the option of going for either high critical chance or very high ice and fire resists (36%). What is to stop your team from hitting them with earthquake, followed by stun, so that you can hit them with a gargantuan high pip tempest on the following round? The answer, of course, is nothing.
The bottom line is that people want to combine all of the worst case scenarios they've seen, such as an all ice team, a team that quakes with ice for a combo hit, ice having 5 blades that have never been mitigated, and sometimes the odd critical hit into this improbable and often impossible scenario where ice with snow angel is unstoppable. Its just not true. No one in any thread has ever laid out any hard mathematical evidence to the contrary. The bottom line is that it "feels" like they are over powered because people have enjoyed talking down about ice damage throughout the majority of the game. Ice is REQUIRED to learn effective blade stacking strategies while learning to mitigate damage in order to make it to and through celestia. I have solo wizards of every school but death and ice BY FAR took more time and patience than the others. That hard work has finally paid off in the arena, but that time is already passing and will likely be gone shortly after Wintertusk is released. Perhaps then we can finally put this topic to rest.
If you want the math then do it. People have already and you continue to ignore it. There have been many posts showing the effective damage per pip and another showing it modified by the typical resistance and health people have.
You don't need a lot of damage done to characters that have low health.
You ignore the issue of turn usage, you ignore the total health issue, you ignore the chance to get a heal card when needed etc.
No one is asking for automatic wins, but more parity and fairness.
players do take time to shield, but they can't when they are stunned or constantly hit by earthquake or ever attacked by DoT spells that prevent them from having such shields up... for all of these reasons shielding becomes a bit useless especially when your health is too low to begin with and your resists are either low or have major holes in them such as with storm of whom's damage is laughable given that many schools have high storm resist on their best gear
Snow Angel would be about right if sheilds reduced its DoT damage in the same way as they do with fire's dragon, but they don't.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing you have described is any different than strategies you could expect from any team. I see a lot of players cast DIFFERENT types of ice shields. I rarely see them cast the same kind to block ice DoTs. Additionally, what is your team (that I'm assuming has lots of storm on it) doing the whole time ice is adding blades? Typical ice gear only gives them a 28% damage boost and with that gear they rarely critical. Therefore, they need a MINIMUM of 5 blades to get to the 1600 per round damage (assuming a treasure gargantuan) you describe in your original post and more realistically, 6 (depending on the configuration they use). This also assumes that you never hit them with some sort of weakness, plague, etc, and that you don't have any ice resistance. The point is that they can never do it quickly.
I don't know what super wizards you are playing, but storm damage is never laughable. With comparable gear, (typical storm boost of 63% vs. typical ice resist of 37%) storm is still boosting by about 3% above base damage with no shields or traps. Higher resistance to storm requires pets (whose values you won't typically see when you look at other wizard's stats) or gear compromises which will generally leave them open to myth damage for which you have a prism. You (storm) also have the option of going for either high critical chance or very high ice and fire resists (36%). What is to stop your team from hitting them with earthquake, followed by stun, so that you can hit them with a gargantuan high pip tempest on the following round? The answer, of course, is nothing.
The bottom line is that people want to combine all of the worst case scenarios they've seen, such as an all ice team, a team that quakes with ice for a combo hit, ice having 5 blades that have never been mitigated, and sometimes the odd critical hit into this improbable and often impossible scenario where ice with snow angel is unstoppable. Its just not true. No one in any thread has ever laid out any hard mathematical evidence to the contrary. The bottom line is that it "feels" like they are over powered because people have enjoyed talking down about ice damage throughout the majority of the game. Ice is REQUIRED to learn effective blade stacking strategies while learning to mitigate damage in order to make it to and through celestia. I have solo wizards of every school but death and ice BY FAR took more time and patience than the others. That hard work has finally paid off in the arena, but that time is already passing and will likely be gone shortly after Wintertusk is released. Perhaps then we can finally put this topic to rest.
Perhaps the entire issue will self-correct when newer equpiment is introduced to the game... I play life, balance, and storm and as such only storm has much in terms of ice resistance and storm has such low health that its ice resistance typically goes unnnoticed. I see entire teams being devestated by ice angel, but then again that can likely be said of many other schools as well. Will just have to see how things play when winter tusk comes out on the live server. I play 4v4 a lot and although life is hard to kill I have less complaint against going up against an all ice team as I do with all fire, storm, death, or balance teams.
If you want the math then do it. People have already and you continue to ignore it. There have been many posts showing the effective damage per pip and another showing it modified by the typical resistance and health people have.
You don't need a lot of damage done to characters that have low health.
You ignore the issue of turn usage, you ignore the total health issue, you ignore the chance to get a heal card when needed etc.
No one is asking for automatic wins, but more parity and fairness.
The only math which demonstrates what you refer to is the one sided kind that doesn't take all the variables into account. The classes are extremely well balanced when all factors are considered. There's power pip chance, accuracy, base damage, gear damage multipliers, critical chance, strategic ability, healing capacity, as well as base health... and that is just the beginning. If you want to focus only on health and resistance, of course ice seems over the top. However, if you want parity and fairness while looking at the entire picture, you're there already.
I'm feeling snarky today so I apologize if my tone is a bit raw. However, will this topic never end? We get it. No other school likes to see an ice wizard ever do a high amount of damage despite the many, many rounds and tricks it takes to build up to it or the many, many opportunities one has to stop it. The following is my opinion, and the "ice spell overpowered" threads have me frustrated, so be warned before you read on:
Since many ice wizards have clearly taken a page out of the storm "high damage" handbook or the fire "damage over time" book, how about others take a page out of the ice handbook and actually bother to shield? Lay down at least 2 of the SAME kind of ice shield before you stack another. Keep other shields (especially towers) in hand so that if you see snow angel, you can cut its damage at least in half on the following two rounds... or craft "super healing" athame and ring and cast a couple of "super" sprites. You could also use two types of weakness... a standard weakness and a treasure (or amulet) weakness together reduce damage by 47.5%. Try to combine that with any of the other methods already mentioned. Of course, you could always go with high resistance arena gear, or for fire and storm, level 58 gear with super high ice resistance. Or, even better... how about a 1 pip ice dispel which is just sitting at the bazaar waiting for buyers? Spam 5 or 6 of those bad boys and ice isn't doing anything for a while.
In summary, I don't think Snow angel is overpowered. I think its different, you need to be aware of the difference, and you need to plan for that difference. Its easy to see coming, and its easy to stop it, particularly from first position where a well timed dispel makes all the difference. However, ALL ice spells require a LOT of blades to do significant damage, and you rarely see an ice wizard who sacrifices resistance for critical chance, particularly now that so many have the "lifeforce" blade which makes it EXTREMELY difficult to have a successful crit. Every school has something that can be difficult to defend against. However in all of the threads I've read about any school (ice included) being "overpowered", all I see is a resistance to change your playstyle, not an actual problem. This is my opinion on the topic.
players do take time to shield, but they can't when they are stunned or constantly hit by earthquake or ever attacked by DoT spells that prevent them from having such shields up... for all of these reasons shielding becomes a bit useless especially when your health is too low to begin with and your resists are either low or have major holes in them such as with storm of whom's damage is laughable given that many schools have high storm resist on their best gear
Snow Angel would be about right if sheilds reduced its DoT damage in the same way as they do with fire's dragon, but they don't.
one thing, that senario you explained is only a 2v2 myth ice vs whoever. only myth and fire can stun everyone for two pips, and really only myth can earthquake, effectively, yes i know there are treasure, but that costs 6 pips, by that time you should at least have 8 pips, you can shoot off all kinds of attacks with that, for example
storm- kraken then a triton back to back, or a levy fire- immolate then a helephant or a efreer (which i highly reccomend on the ice) life- satyr or seraph, then a centaur, or a forest lord ice-you name it, depends on blade setup. balance- elemental blast backed up with hydra, or a ra myth, you can do 3 humongofrogs back to back (8 then you are at 4, you gain a power pip, so 6, then another frog 2 then another pip 4.) death, not quite sure depends on what the setup is again
you know there is such thing as looking at the glass half full, not half empty.
frankly, if i didnt know any better, the way you people describe these situations, you could make a believer out of me, the reason you may ask? you guys are making things sound one sided, like you opponent can only do spells, like you have to just sit there.
btw pyromancer speaking here, and the initial hit of dragon doesnt affect the DoT, it may seem like it, but realize that dragon's I.H., and DoT, are just about even, not like ice angel.
i gotta say i agree with gtarhannon and darthst, snow angel is far from overpowered, and if you want to do something about it, this is what you can do, instead of whining on the boards, you can get a new strategy, you can work around it, you can not pvp if it bothers you that much.
personally, even though i am rubbish at pvp (well halfway, when the time comes i am epic lol, other than that, my ratings are about 70 losses to 20 wins XD. grrr, i can stand my ground with a great ice and a myth (1v2), but i can never defeat my friends), i love the ice angel spell, it saved me in the warehouse, briskbreeze, even the new tower. the bosses would attack the ice instead of us (lol he has pvp's worst nighmare, a sea dragon with spell proof, and defy, with spritely, so damage rarely falters him) before you tell me that is what you are saying, my friend quit pvp because of a bunch of rude remarks to him, and he was driven past his limit.
How many times have I done the math on this, demonstrating step by step, down to the wire, on how balanced the schools are. Take a look through the posts and see for yourself. I have shown each school, their damage, their criticals, their accuracy, their pip chance, everything. I broke it down, compared one set of clothing, then even showed the variable in crafted clothing.
Now, when WinterTusk goes live, the variables change again. All schools will have universal resistance and higher critical attacks, higher critical block, and higher power.
Once it goes live, the only benefit Ice will have, is health, and critical block, now overpower that!
I do not have the gentle touch that Gtar has, so please excuse my direct approach.
I understand your point, but why blame a strategy on one spell, Snow angel?
I hear over and over that Snow Angel can do 1600 a turn, and it can, but just as others have stated, it takes a lot of time to set that up.
Ok, how much time, lets say we get a Snow Angel and a Gargantuan at the same time in our hand. We add them together (and I will even use the Treasure card for this one) we get 225 + 785 over the next three rounds. Now let's add in our internal boost, of 1.34, that is very typical of a level 60. 261 times 1.34 = 350. Now lets add in our Blade 350 * 1.4 and we get 490. Ok, Now lets add in the Tri-boost, and we get 490 * 1.35 = 662. (we just lost a pip) Ok, we are getting up to that 1600 mark, lets keep going. We now add in the Snow ring and we get 662 * 1.35 = 894.6. (Oh, we just lost another two pips or a Power pip). So we have gone three rounds, and we have lost two or three pips. So now we need a Treasure card boost, 1.45 * 894.6 = 1,297, but we don't have enough pips yet to fire off a Snow Angel, and that is only if all the cards show up exactly as needed. Now we need to go over to the Treasure Tri-boost to get to the 1600 mark. (and guess what, we just lost another Pip or Power pip, so most likely we still can't fire off Snow Angel).
I would suggest that anyone that thinks Snow Angel is overpowered, to do the same math on Skeleton Dragon, or Efreet and look at what they can do in Six rounds with their boost and Treasure boost. They both make Snow Angel look like a snowball in an oven.
Storm, Life, Death, Fire, and Myth can all do basically the same thing, and get more hitting power for their Level 58 spell. I am not sure if Balance can boost as much as the other schools, as they have limitations, imo.
So, maybe six rounds later we can release the Snow Angel (if we get enough Power Pips), and if Skeleton Dragon, Efreet, Medusea, etc, has not already taken us out.
Now what makes me upset if Snow Angel is an AOT, and plenty of PVP'er have the Life Amulet. So as soon as Snow Angel flys, all they had to do is wait for a round and hit a 1600 or more heal.
So I will answer this question once and for all time, the Answer is no, absolutely not.
PS: anyone that is getting hit with 1600 a round from Snow Angel should consider that their Strategy may have an issue. Or maybe that PvP is just not for them, imho.
The caster used swords and had an increase to ice damage. Your shields only defended the initial attack if you had have multiple shields up then you would not have taken that damage.
If a similar equipped fire wizard used dragon it would hit the same way. That is the deal with DOTs.
so be silent stop fighting and do ALL the math i seen you guys just do oh ya for ONE target it isnt fair but it doesnt hit just one target
The question at hand is... is the spell overpowered? What you described is no different than fire dragon which is one less pip, has higher base damage, and will be amplified more by fire gear boosts than snow angel will by ice boosts. The spells mentioned are single hitters, but the point is that they can all take out an ice before he can do a snow angel of sufficient force to actually successfully kill the enemies. So the answer is no. No it it isn't over powered.
Effectively, no. Every school has decidedly larger gear damage boosts than ice.
stormkingthe2end wrote:
but guess what what about people like me who dont use other schools spells? x. x and my second school is life so i dont got any shields at all unless i buy them
That is your personal design decision. How does that in any affect snow angel being over powered or not?
stormkingthe2end wrote:
and i feel its pretty bad when you gotta spend gold to buy 4 shields just to block 1 spell and even worse when its ice x. x so ya it is op for a ICE
So what, pray tell, would you consider "just right" for ice? Do you have a problem with Fire Dragon or scald? Additionally, if you're myth, you can quake before the ice can snow angel. Taunt isn't going to affect you in any tangible way and at base strength, you can use a sprite or two to compensate for the damage unless you are losing the match anyway. Finally, you're single hitter, medusa may only say 770, but your gear boost will scale the damage far higher than ice. Every school, in fact, will do that.
Like honestly this is still a topic?? People have really gotten past this if you dont ice is completely underpowered in every aspect thanks to waterworks gear and just poor spells given to us you just aren't playing the game or when you do play the game you just sit in your house or under a rock lol.
Snow angel isn't overpowered. I'm no ice but think about all the spells others have. Ice is one of the weaker ones. It has more life and defense sure but a storm or fire can wipe them out. Snow angel is one of those attacks that is better than the rest of theirs. I mean think about how many times storm's use storm lord or triton, think about how many times fire's use helephant or fire dragon. Now think of how many times you've seen an ice use tower shield or frost giant. Compare it to ether and it's a very small number. Ice angel is their best so far and if it's overpowered let it be. I mean thats probably best they got. (Really sorry to all you offended ice's out there. If not, great.)
No, snow angel is not overpowered, it is, simply put, a properly set up damage over time spell. It is supposed to shred through shields, that is why it is a damage over time spell!
Now, come wintertusk update, the only advantage that ice will have, is high health, and maybe a higher critical block...
There are also ways then to neutralize the damage of snow angel, for 0 pips at that! So, what more do you want? a cookie?
Hahaha, LOVE you darthjt! yes they must want cookies. lots of them lol. So many complaints about snow angel, so many complaints about storm, so many complaints about heck hound and fire elf, yada yada yada and dont forget........ they heal too! waaaaaaaah I need some cookies! lol lol lol ah thanks, for that darthjt, I needed a laugh. I was getting irritated at all the complaints. Thanks for making my day. :-D
Dear so and so, My friend and I always pvp together. I am a Seargent and she is a Warlord and we are both Thaumaturges. I do not find Snow Angel to be overpowered, you must realize that us ice folk do not get very good damage effects, only resistance. You just need to know how to place the card correctly. My friend always gets powered up to do her Snow Angel then I stun with Santa (haha). We always power up with treasure cards, elemental blades, treasure balance blades, regular balance blade, ice blades, and treasure ice blades. The only thing I could recommend would be doing that but with your school. I hope I helped you with PvP.
I continue to be surprised that this topic hasn't died yet but keeps popping back up to the top. The topic was posted before wintertusk came out and with all the changes that came with wintertusk snow angel is no longer as powerful and indefensible as it used to be, the time in which only ice wizards reigned supreme came to an end when wintertusk came out.
Well, plz just dont complain about it. I am an ice wizard and I finally want a strong spell. Plus it is only one spell. So seriously just leave it be there will be a lot more powerful spells than snow angle in the future. Leave it be. I dont want it to be changed.
