To be honest, there should be no reason that jade is allowed in pvp its way too abused to the point where a jade only has to do one thing in pvp and that is shield then heal in a continuous loop. The only people that defend jade are those that use it in the first place, why defend something that is obviously breaking pvp just by being allowed to use it.
High lvl minions are aren't allowed in pvp which you can't bring into battle, just do the same with jade. A good example of something that would break or maybe balance pvp(idk i could be bias since i love storm) is turning wild bolt back to its original spell, which was way way way back in the past. It was like 10% chance to hit but did 1,000 damage. If jade users can have their game breaking gear that forces 1 hour matches then allow storms to use a match winning original spell. Cause if your going to have something that breaks the game in terms of defense, may as well have something that breaks the game in terms of raw damage.( Two wrongs don't make a right but it gets my point across)
And readers please don't try to defend jade by saying "Logically a jade can easily be beaten" or "learn to play" or "use crowns to get pierce" or "get tc or better gear" We all know those are just poor excuses so you can keep your broken gear. A knowledgeable jade users, counters all of this. Basically what you guys are saying is "go deconstruct the great wall of china with a pair of chop sticks" Which is absolutely insane.
When Jade first released years ago I would have agreed with you. Back then Jade Gear had no real counter and single-handedly destroyed the entire first age meta. I still think that Jade was the biggest gear mistake that KI has ever made and if I could turn back the clock and rewrite one change it would be this one.
That being said Jade is no longer the problem it once was. With armor piercing as high as it is along with huge base damage attacks it is no longer necessary to forbid jade gear. I do think Jade Gear needs to be phased out as we level to allow the return of more gear diversity. However, it does not need to be forbidden or nerfed at this point in time.
What I find amusing is how every post about Jade has to include the traditional "if you defend it it's because you're using it" argument, and it clearly denotes your massive lack of PvP experience. In fact, this message boards is lacking the participation of actual experienced PvP players, because like I mentioned several, several times, operating around a Jade's resist/shields is extremely easy in a metagame that's centered completely on offense. The thing that gets me thinking that you may not be very experienced PvP-wise is the fact that you're a self proclaimed Storm wizard struggling and complaining about Jades, while the Storm school undoubtedly tears a Jade apart with almost no effort needed.
Did Jades ruin PvP? Yes, it's what lead Wizard101 into a high offense game. Were Jades game breaking back when they were first released? Yes, we lacked offensive tools to be able to take down a Jade. Should Jade have become 'No PvP' back when it was first released? Yes, of course. Are Jades still hard to beat? Not even remotely given how many gear-given and spell-given tools we have. Is Jade as problematic as it used to be? Not even close. Does it need addressing in the future? Yes, as long as Jades exist the game cannot go back into its balanced metagame but will sadly have to stay hyper offense or else we won't be able to deal with them. KI can add armor pierce resist to hats robes and boots only in future gear and increase our armor pierce and armor pierce resist gradually; a Jade's resist will eventually mean nothing in the PvP world.
Comparing Wild Bolt to Jade makes absolutely no sense since KI wished to introduce accuracy enchantments with the Celestia expansion but couldn't do it without overpowering Wild Bolt. In fact, Wild Bolt was indirectly buffed in that instead of 10% of the time you're hitting 1000, it's now 33% of the time. Old Wild Bolt didn't break the game, it was severely underused because of its unreliability and guaranteed damage with Triton.
To be honest, there should be no reason that jade is allowed in pvp its way too abused to the point where a jade only has to do one thing in pvp and that is shield then heal in a continuous loop. The only people that defend jade are those that use it in the first place, why defend something that is obviously breaking pvp just by being allowed to use it.
High lvl minions are aren't allowed in pvp which you can't bring into battle, just do the same with jade. A good example of something that would break or maybe balance pvp(idk i could be bias since i love storm) is turning wild bolt back to its original spell, which was way way way back in the past. It was like 10% chance to hit but did 1,000 damage. If jade users can have their game breaking gear that forces 1 hour matches then allow storms to use a match winning original spell. Cause if your going to have something that breaks the game in terms of defense, may as well have something that breaks the game in terms of raw damage.( Two wrongs don't make a right but it gets my point across)
And readers please don't try to defend jade by saying "Logically a jade can easily be beaten" or "learn to play" or "use crowns to get pierce" or "get tc or better gear" We all know those are just poor excuses so you can keep your broken gear. A knowledgeable jade users, counters all of this. Basically what you guys are saying is "go deconstruct the great wall of china with a pair of chop sticks" Which is absolutely insane.
First off, I would like to point that I'm a Jade user myself, so the things I'm about to say come from personal experience. I will only state what I have observed.
Just as there are knowledgeable Jade users, there is also knowledgeable everyone else. In an attempt to defeat the Jade user, players will disparately try to spam the Jade user to death. This will rarely kill Jade users. If you know a little bit about Jade gear, you would know that Jade users have no trouble healing back up.
As a Storm wizard, you should have little to no problem facing and killing Jades. Storm's naturally high damage and pierce can go through Jade gear like it's nothing while dealing a lot of damage. I find Storm one of the hardest schools to face with Jade gear, as you don't have to worry about Jade users killing you if you act quickly. I have faced a few Storm wizard while implementing the Angel Strategy, and I have surprisingly won against almost all of them. I was killed by one or two Storms, I killed one Storm, and the rest I won due to my opponent running out of cards. The one or two Storm wizards that I lost against knew what they were doing and had no trouble killing me at all.
When people tell you to use what's available to defeat Jade users, they're not telling you that because they're defending Jade gear; they're telling you that because it helps. I have gone against players that took the extra step to pierce through my resist and had no problem at all.
Frankly, I don't think Jade gear will ever be nerfed or banned from PvP. I'm sure KingsIsle has made a lot of money out of this pack.
What I find amusing is how every post about Jade has to include the traditional "if you defend it it's because you're using it" argument, and it clearly denotes your massive lack of PvP experience. In fact, this message boards is lacking the participation of actual experienced PvP players, because like I mentioned several, several times, operating around a Jade's resist/shields is extremely easy in a metagame that's centered completely on offense. The thing that gets me thinking that you may not be very experienced PvP-wise is the fact that you're a self proclaimed Storm wizard struggling and complaining about Jades, while the Storm school undoubtedly tears a Jade apart with almost no effort needed.
Did Jades ruin PvP? Yes, it's what lead Wizard101 into a high offense game. Were Jades game breaking back when they were first released? Yes, we lacked offensive tools to be able to take down a Jade. Should Jade have become 'No PvP' back when it was first released? Yes, of course. Are Jades still hard to beat? Not even remotely given how many gear-given and spell-given tools we have. Is Jade as problematic as it used to be? Not even close. Does it need addressing in the future? Yes, as long as Jades exist the game cannot go back into its balanced metagame but will sadly have to stay hyper offense or else we won't be able to deal with them. KI can add armor pierce resist to hats robes and boots only in future gear and increase our armor pierce and armor pierce resist gradually; a Jade's resist will eventually mean nothing in the PvP world.
Comparing Wild Bolt to Jade makes absolutely no sense since KI wished to introduce accuracy enchantments with the Celestia expansion but couldn't do it without overpowering Wild Bolt. In fact, Wild Bolt was indirectly buffed in that instead of 10% of the time you're hitting 1000, it's now 33% of the time. Old Wild Bolt didn't break the game, it was severely underused because of its unreliability and guaranteed damage with Triton.
Now your other comments are reasonable, but your first paragraph is just embarrassing. I never said i had personal trouble, i have no idea where you drew that conclusion from. I'm just trying to solve a issue of pvp. And since you wanted to bring up lack of "pvp experince" comment which is funny since when i challenged you to a 1v1 on the jade needs a nerf topic, since you think your so good that you transcend all pvp problems. You quickly overlooked it like i didn't say anything yet you kept arguing with everyone else.
You know what, i think your all title and no pvp experience, that your not a "Pvp King" but a "wanabe pvp master" if you're not then 1v1. And prove you have the knowledge and skill to back your rooster(cause roosters are the loudest of all the birds) of outbursts. Someone can record it, to see if your really who you say you are. If you refuse then all your comments of knowing so much have no validation. The other reason i want this battle is how rude you are to new pvp players, its elitist like that scare away new players.
And it does make sense because i meant if in current time they brought back the original wild bolt.
First off, I would like to point that I'm a Jade user myself, so the things I'm about to say come from personal experience. I will only state what I have observed.
Just as there are knowledgeable Jade users, there is also knowledgeable everyone else. In an attempt to defeat the Jade user, players will disparately try to spam the Jade user to death. This will rarely kill Jade users. If you know a little bit about Jade gear, you would know that Jade users have no trouble healing back up.
As a Storm wizard, you should have little to no problem facing and killing Jades. Storm's naturally high damage and pierce can go through Jade gear like it's nothing while dealing a lot of damage. I find Storm one of the hardest schools to face with Jade gear, as you don't have to worry about Jade users killing you if you act quickly. I have faced a few Storm wizard while implementing the Angel Strategy, and I have surprisingly won against almost all of them. I was killed by one or two Storms, I killed one Storm, and the rest I won due to my opponent running out of cards. The one or two Storm wizards that I lost against knew what they were doing and had no trouble killing me at all.
When people tell you to use what's available to defeat Jade users, they're not telling you that because they're defending Jade gear; they're telling you that because it helps. I have gone against players that took the extra step to pierce through my resist and had no problem at all.
Frankly, I don't think Jade gear will ever be nerfed or banned from PvP. I'm sure KingsIsle has made a lot of money out of this pack.
I never said i'm having personal issues with jade, don't put words into my mouth. :P
First off, I would like to point that I'm a Jade user myself, so the things I'm about to say come from personal experience. I will only state what I have observed.
Just as there are knowledgeable Jade users, there is also knowledgeable everyone else. In an attempt to defeat the Jade user, players will disparately try to spam the Jade user to death. This will rarely kill Jade users. If you know a little bit about Jade gear, you would know that Jade users have no trouble healing back up.
As a Storm wizard, you should have little to no problem facing and killing Jades. Storm's naturally high damage and pierce can go through Jade gear like it's nothing while dealing a lot of damage. I find Storm one of the hardest schools to face with Jade gear, as you don't have to worry about Jade users killing you if you act quickly. I have faced a few Storm wizard while implementing the Angel Strategy, and I have surprisingly won against almost all of them. I was killed by one or two Storms, I killed one Storm, and the rest I won due to my opponent running out of cards. The one or two Storm wizards that I lost against knew what they were doing and had no trouble killing me at all.
When people tell you to use what's available to defeat Jade users, they're not telling you that because they're defending Jade gear; they're telling you that because it helps. I have gone against players that took the extra step to pierce through my resist and had no problem at all.
Frankly, I don't think Jade gear will ever be nerfed or banned from PvP. I'm sure KingsIsle has made a lot of money out of this pack.
Besides none of what you said is even a solution to the issue with jades, you basically used one of the examples i said for the excuses jade users say to legitimize the use of having jade gear in pvp.
A single school isn't a solution to beating a over abused gear. You shouldn't even defend gear that is used in pvp just to waste people's time, its a dirty form of winning that is not even a real win. I want to ban jade from pvp not because of how it personally affects me but how it affects pvp overall, you can have the best gear in the entire game but if someone wants to turtle and never fight back then its not a 1v1, its just a stall match. Stall matches aren't even fun, so its hard to see why you even want to defend such a thing.
Look i get you enjoy wasting people's time cause you have so much to spare, but other people don't feel the same way about throwing away their time for your entertainment. I drew this conclusion cause you admited to being jade yourself, all jade players play the same which is why they have a single name "Jade". There aren't different groups like there are different school.
Now your other comments are reasonable, but your first paragraph is just embarrassing. I never said i had personal trouble, i have no idea where you drew that conclusion from. I'm just trying to solve a issue of pvp. And since you wanted to bring up lack of "pvp experince" comment which is funny since when i challenged you to a 1v1 on the jade needs a nerf topic, since you think your so good that you transcend all pvp problems. You quickly overlooked it like i didn't say anything yet you kept arguing with everyone else.
You know what, i think your all title and no pvp experience, that your not a "Pvp King" but a "wanabe pvp master" if you're not then 1v1. And prove you have the knowledge and skill to back your rooster(cause roosters are the loudest of all the birds) of outbursts. Someone can record it, to see if your really who you say you are. If you refuse then all your comments of knowing so much have no validation. The other reason i want this battle is how rude you are to new pvp players, its elitist like that scare away new players.
And it does make sense because i meant if in current time they brought back the original wild bolt.
I'm not on the message boards to 1v1 every single player that disagrees with me or that I disagree with. If you disagree with me, bring up actual relative points that have constructive value against my argument. On the other Jade thread, you openly admitted that you weren't using the best gear/jewels available and therefore struggled with Jade...which should be self explanatory. If I was a game developer reading complaints from players that don't even try to go for the best equipment possible or near equivalent alternatives, I wouldn't take the thread seriously.
However, I did disregard your challenge because I'm still adapting to the new meta on my lower levels and so far it's difficult. At the moment there is no way to beat the Cosmic Kris and Stellar Signet (at levels 50-89) without completely adopting a OHKO strategy, which relies completely on getting the first turn advantage. A max level match is a poor representation of skill/experience because it's so heavily based on luck. It's at the point where the entire state of a match can change all in one turn just by a happening of luck such as a critical or a Shadow pip, or even something like being first. Here's what Duelist101 says about it:
"The current meta is very unstable (I would call it capricious.)...Even some experienced duelists have been so displeased with recent top level PvP that they have taken recluse in lower levels."
This recluse at lower levels has been widely considered to be destroyed and abandoned because deck macro is no longer an option available to players, which is what lower level PvP relied on. There is no sense of control anymore such as reliable heal mitigation (Infection multiplying) and consistently taking out minions with multiplied 4 pip AoE's. You're supposed to just ignore everything and go for the win. However, if you'd like to see my Magus, I usually spin in Scarecrow realm in the Arena, but I'm not always present.
Besides none of what you said is even a solution to the issue with jades, you basically used one of the examples i said for the excuses jade users say to legitimize the use of having jade gear in pvp.
A single school isn't a solution to beating a over abused gear. You shouldn't even defend gear that is used in pvp just to waste people's time, its a dirty form of winning that is not even a real win. I want to ban jade from pvp not because of how it personally affects me but how it affects pvp overall, you can have the best gear in the entire game but if someone wants to turtle and never fight back then its not a 1v1, its just a stall match. Stall matches aren't even fun, so its hard to see why you even want to defend such a thing.
Look i get you enjoy wasting people's time cause you have so much to spare, but other people don't feel the same way about throwing away their time for your entertainment. I drew this conclusion cause you admited to being jade yourself, all jade players play the same which is why they have a single name "Jade". There aren't different groups like there are different school.
I had to laugh a little while reading your post, forgive me.
If you're not having personal issues with Jades, killing Jades should be a walk in the park for you, considering Storm has both naturally high damage and pierce. Most of the things I stated in my post were things I observed as a Jade user, and I made that clear.
There are different types of Jade users, actually. Someone Jade users attempt to kill they're opponent while others don't. I personally don't find stalling the match a reliable strategy as you sign up yourself for very, very long matches. Most of the matches I face only last an hour.
Shrike, Infallible, and pierce bubbles are not solutions to counter Jade gear? You don't need all three things to pierce through Jade gear; you only need one or two. This is not an excuse I use to defend Jade gear. These are legitimate counters you refuse to use. If people tell you to use these things when facing a Jade user, and you associate these as excuses to legitimize Jade gear in PvP, then that's your problem.
Your last paragraph was by far the best. Most of the players who complain about their time being wasted are the same players who will sit there until the end of the match. So in a way, you're wasting your own time by deciding to play along; no one's forcing you to stay.
I'm not on the message boards to 1v1 every single player that disagrees with me or that I disagree with. If you disagree with me, bring up actual relative points that have constructive value against my argument. On the other Jade thread, you openly admitted that you weren't using the best gear/jewels available and therefore struggled with Jade...which should be self explanatory. If I was a game developer reading complaints from players that don't even try to go for the best equipment possible or near equivalent alternatives, I wouldn't take the thread seriously.
However, I did disregard your challenge because I'm still adapting to the new meta on my lower levels and so far it's difficult. At the moment there is no way to beat the Cosmic Kris and Stellar Signet (at levels 50-89) without completely adopting a OHKO strategy, which relies completely on getting the first turn advantage. A max level match is a poor representation of skill/experience because it's so heavily based on luck. It's at the point where the entire state of a match can change all in one turn just by a happening of luck such as a critical or a Shadow pip, or even something like being first. Here's what Duelist101 says about it:
"The current meta is very unstable (I would call it capricious.)...Even some experienced duelists have been so displeased with recent top level PvP that they have taken recluse in lower levels."
This recluse at lower levels has been widely considered to be destroyed and abandoned because deck macro is no longer an option available to players, which is what lower level PvP relied on. There is no sense of control anymore such as reliable heal mitigation (Infection multiplying) and consistently taking out minions with multiplied 4 pip AoE's. You're supposed to just ignore everything and go for the win. However, if you'd like to see my Magus, I usually spin in Scarecrow realm in the Arena, but I'm not always present.
Fair enough, i respect your stance on that. Like i said before, i have no issues with jades. My storm has 45 pierce with 105 damage. I can even make my pierce 50 something while only loosing a little bit of power pip chance. I can easily beat a jade any day of the week. Also please stop thinking just cause i care about a issue doesn't mean i have self-involved problems with it, i simply want to fix it for the people it affects. Just like a doctor doesn't need to have a broken leg to heal someone that does.
I had to laugh a little while reading your post, forgive me.
If you're not having personal issues with Jades, killing Jades should be a walk in the park for you, considering Storm has both naturally high damage and pierce. Most of the things I stated in my post were things I observed as a Jade user, and I made that clear.
There are different types of Jade users, actually. Someone Jade users attempt to kill they're opponent while others don't. I personally don't find stalling the match a reliable strategy as you sign up yourself for very, very long matches. Most of the matches I face only last an hour.
Shrike, Infallible, and pierce bubbles are not solutions to counter Jade gear? You don't need all three things to pierce through Jade gear; you only need one or two. This is not an excuse I use to defend Jade gear. These are legitimate counters you refuse to use. If people tell you to use these things when facing a Jade user, and you associate these as excuses to legitimize Jade gear in PvP, then that's your problem.
Your last paragraph was by far the best. Most of the players who complain about their time being wasted are the same players who will sit there until the end of the match. So in a way, you're wasting your own time by deciding to play along; no one's forcing you to stay.
Shrike and etc are valuable counters, but hmmm this actually requires a lot of thinking xD.
I'll just say whats on my mind for the time being: What happened to the matches where people could make a creative custom deck that is attuned to their special style of play to beat the enemy? Jade complicates this, by forcing people to go down a path of being a "nut-cracker" than being something creative.
I wouldn't know how to list everything jade complicates on this, so for now i'll just say
I had to laugh a little while reading your post, forgive me.
If you're not having personal issues with Jades, killing Jades should be a walk in the park for you, considering Storm has both naturally high damage and pierce. Most of the things I stated in my post were things I observed as a Jade user, and I made that clear.
There are different types of Jade users, actually. Someone Jade users attempt to kill they're opponent while others don't. I personally don't find stalling the match a reliable strategy as you sign up yourself for very, very long matches. Most of the matches I face only last an hour.
Shrike, Infallible, and pierce bubbles are not solutions to counter Jade gear? You don't need all three things to pierce through Jade gear; you only need one or two. This is not an excuse I use to defend Jade gear. These are legitimate counters you refuse to use. If people tell you to use these things when facing a Jade user, and you associate these as excuses to legitimize Jade gear in PvP, then that's your problem.
Your last paragraph was by far the best. Most of the players who complain about their time being wasted are the same players who will sit there until the end of the match. So in a way, you're wasting your own time by deciding to play along; no one's forcing you to stay.
Oh yea i forgot, there is also juju-jade(spams juju, while having super high defense, tc fortify, maybe blade stacks).
To be honest, there should be no reason that jade is allowed in pvp its way too abused to the point where a jade only has to do one thing in pvp and that is shield then heal in a continuous loop. The only people that defend jade are those that use it in the first place, why defend something that is obviously breaking pvp just by being allowed to use it.
High lvl minions are aren't allowed in pvp which you can't bring into battle, just do the same with jade. A good example of something that would break or maybe balance pvp(idk i could be bias since i love storm) is turning wild bolt back to its original spell, which was way way way back in the past. It was like 10% chance to hit but did 1,000 damage. If jade users can have their game breaking gear that forces 1 hour matches then allow storms to use a match winning original spell. Cause if your going to have something that breaks the game in terms of defense, may as well have something that breaks the game in terms of raw damage.( Two wrongs don't make a right but it gets my point across)
And readers please don't try to defend jade by saying "Logically a jade can easily be beaten" or "learn to play" or "use crowns to get pierce" or "get tc or better gear" We all know those are just poor excuses so you can keep your broken gear. A knowledgeable jade users, counters all of this. Basically what you guys are saying is "go deconstruct the great wall of china with a pair of chop sticks" Which is absolutely insane.
I have read some of the statements below, but not all. People seem to forget the past, at least that seems to be the case here.
I can clearly remember Mr. PvP King asking for help against JuJU/Jades, as many other players. I also remember Mr. Strombringer explaining the narrow corridor (after a reshuffle), being a key to their defeat. Even the Duelist101 site had a article on how to defeat a Jade. We will not mention the constant complaints over the years, on how hard it is for most entry Wizards, to defeat them. Jade at lower levels, is still an issue, and is still driving entry level players away.
So, I have to agree with you, Jade should be controlled in PVP, but not at all levels. PVP should have been split a long time ago, at level 98 when Shadow entered. Levels below 98 should should have a resist limit, maybe around 65 max. Levels 98 and over, should have no control on resist, as they have all the tools to take care of it. Could the resist be controlled, yes, as clearly shown in the Tournaments. If they can remove you Amulet, Pet, etc, they can control your resist.
The point of my post is to remind people that without new players, PvP will die out even more than it already has. I have watched more than my share of players start a match and just flee, after they find out the opponent has 105% or more resist.
KI has made changes to benefit PVP, like the reshuffle change. I expect this was to eliminate Jade JuJu players. Of course it had the wrong effect on other parts of PvP. It appears to me that KI does listen, but does not have the resources to fix the key issues of PvP.
I have read some of the statements below, but not all. People seem to forget the past, at least that seems to be the case here.
I can clearly remember Mr. PvP King asking for help against JuJU/Jades, as many other players. I also remember Mr. Strombringer explaining the narrow corridor (after a reshuffle), being a key to their defeat. Even the Duelist101 site had a article on how to defeat a Jade. We will not mention the constant complaints over the years, on how hard it is for most entry Wizards, to defeat them. Jade at lower levels, is still an issue, and is still driving entry level players away.
So, I have to agree with you, Jade should be controlled in PVP, but not at all levels. PVP should have been split a long time ago, at level 98 when Shadow entered. Levels below 98 should should have a resist limit, maybe around 65 max. Levels 98 and over, should have no control on resist, as they have all the tools to take care of it. Could the resist be controlled, yes, as clearly shown in the Tournaments. If they can remove you Amulet, Pet, etc, they can control your resist.
The point of my post is to remind people that without new players, PvP will die out even more than it already has. I have watched more than my share of players start a match and just flee, after they find out the opponent has 105% or more resist.
KI has made changes to benefit PVP, like the reshuffle change. I expect this was to eliminate Jade JuJu players. Of course it had the wrong effect on other parts of PvP. It appears to me that KI does listen, but does not have the resources to fix the key issues of PvP.
The reshuffle change hasn't dimmed down the amount of Jade Juju players. And I think at the lower levels (going against people in Jade), it is pretty hard since you don't have access to Shrike or more pierce.
I just love how people call for jade to be taken out because of "resist" yet they don't have any issues with the warlord gear, that gives 40 Universal resist, 38 Universal damage, 16 universal acc, 19 pip chance, 9 stun resist, 50 Universal crit rating. 65 Universal crit block, *just the hate boots and robe*, that so many privates had to face off against when all they ever got was warlords. I went from private to warlord in Age 2 while having to fight all warlords guess what no one cared about the unfair matches then with Resist and No real way around it. Now we have people crying about jade gear and how unfair it is people crying about boosting and how unfair that is and people wanting wild bolt to be back to 1000damage which would just make pvp even more unfair since most storms just spam it anyways. Maybe instead of crying about what is not broken ask for fixes on what is broken and more will pvp and people who use too will pvp again.
