Something must be done against the chaining of Tempest! How can anyone even call it a fun fight when 4 storm just use Tempest over and over and over and... I mean where is the thrill of the fight?!?
No this is not a cheat but it should be considered it is the same thing storms cried with the stuns vs Ice and Myth! Yet they are contempt to team with other storm and employ this tactic as if it makes for a fair fight.
I say reduce the damage done by Tempest to 25 per pip. Use it all you want to start a match then!
I think honestly the best thing that could be done is no two of the same clase can be in any group that would limit so much of the "chaining" that so many have issues with.
I have tried and tried to level in PvP and the best I have done is veteran for one fight then I fell back down. Make PvP fun or just get rid of it! it seems like an exploit anyway! A way to mistreat other players through verbal or tactics that don't seem hardly fair.
Here we go again, trying to change spells because you lose to them!!!
Sorry, but I disagree...
If you cant win a 4v4 match, I suggest you dont play ranked 4v4 matches! It's that simple. If you can't beat something, or figure out a way to stop something, then avoid it, or go around it.
The problem is not with PvP, the problem is with the players and their thinking!
I will not repeat my exact words I just posted in another thread on this issue...
In no way is storm cheating or being unfair...
If you want to see why, please see the other post about full storm teams...
Unless you can come up with a good solution to storms problems in PvP, I think all is fair, especially since most train in ice to tower shield and spam Storm/Fire Shields....
... Really? Reduce it to 25 damage per pip? That makes it not worth anything at all at that point. Try playing as a storm and you'll see we have it very hard in PvP as well. We have low health, so we make up for it in attack power. But we lose defences when we bump our attack power up. So while you people can get up to 75% universal resist out there, we have a really tough time playing. Don't complain until you've walked a mile in our shoes.
Tempest does rule the arena now and it is a little out of hand, I said just make limits to the ability of critical, I dont like how everyone can now just cast a 4 pip spell and critical it, just doesnt seem realistic a critical should be with a much stronger spell. And now no one really uses their 48 spells because gargantuan and a 4 pip spell is so much easier and now we are seeing that PvP isn't even strategy anymore its just blind luck. And of course people that don't know any strategy, or how to operate in PvP will defend their new found way of beating anyone in a few turns to the death, and thats why you have people that are posting against you.. I really think they should just make it, that it needs to be more than 4 pips to critical it. Because I think this is just creating a new line of PvPers that just don't know how to pvp. I tell you they think they are the best PvPers in the world but when they 1v1 they will never win. PvP system now a days is all luck strategy really doesnt exisist if you watch a 4v4 the whole strategy is i'll tempest with gargantuan, or ill meteor with gargantuan, and i should get a critical. Or then my pet should spritely to heal me its like. Where is the actual PvP. But its not changing as you can see by the people who disagree with you, People will never give up their new way of winning without having to think about the match and just blast and critical..
I will not repeat my exact words I just posted in another thread on this issue...
In no way is storm cheating or being unfair...
If you want to see why, please see the other post about full storm teams...
Unless you can come up with a good solution to storms problems in PvP, I think all is fair, especially since most train in ice to tower shield and spam Storm/Fire Shields....
i know 100% agree with you. not you storm hater ! lol
... Really? Reduce it to 25 damage per pip? That makes it not worth anything at all at that point. Try playing as a storm and you'll see we have it very hard in PvP as well. We have low health, so we make up for it in attack power. But we lose defences when we bump our attack power up. So while you people can get up to 75% universal resist out there, we have a really tough time playing. Don't complain until you've walked a mile in our shoes.
The problem is not with PvP, the problem is with the players and their thinking!
Yes I agree it is not PvP but players thinking that a full round of Tempest to wipe out the other side before they get a chance to play is fun!
ur87 wrote:
hers a tip: if you don't like pvp, dont play it. its an add on to the game, its not necessary.
The problem with your tip is I like PvP, especially when it is extremely challenging and I come this close to winning! I don't mind loosing, I do have an issue when every match I go into 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 and all the storm does is tempest. Is that really a show of your skills?
No darthjt, as I said initially it is NOT a cheat
tragamite wrote:
No this is not a cheat but it should be considered it is the same thing storms cried with the stuns vs Ice and Myth! Yet they are contempt to team with other storm and employ this tactic as if it makes for a fair fight.
I have survived upto 3 rounds against this tactic which would give me a chance to cast rebirth (7 pip) if the cards align right AND my team goes first!
maxitola2009 wrote:
... Really? Reduce it to 25 damage per pip? That makes it not worth anything at all at that point. Try playing as a storm and you'll see we have it very hard in PvP as well. We have low health, so we make up for it in attack power. But we lose defences when we bump our attack power up. So while you people can get up to 75% universal resist out there, we have a really tough time playing. Don't complain until you've walked a mile in our shoes.
No not really reduce it to 25 per pip that would indeed be a kick in the teath to storm. I do have a storm wizard. This is not a punch at storm wizards and I hate crying NERF to anything. I do feel that the schools are for the most part balanced as they can be.
For your info Maxitola2009 I have never seen a life with better then 30% resist so I wonder what other shoes you have walked a mile in?
I really enjoy PvP but I really want to see tactics employed to best the other team not one spell repeated by all the oposing force to snuff out the match before it can really begin.
meteors, sandstorm, frog, etc., all do the same and can be cast on turn one... so your grounds for picking on storm for tempesting on turn one is merely picking on one school where many have the same capability
if the first side to play would be disabled from attacking first turn, both sides could have time to set up at least some defenses and the problem would likely be diminished and/or solved
meteors, sandstorm, frog, etc., all do the same and can be cast on turn one... so your grounds for picking on storm for tempesting on turn one is merely picking on one school where many have the same capability
if the first side to play would be disabled from attacking first turn, both sides could have time to set up at least some defenses and the problem would likely be diminished and/or solved
While your point is valid with the 1st attack spells these spells can not be used round after round after round! Additionally I have never seen anyone deploy these spells like tempest has been employed.
To your second point, you would think that you would have time to enact defenses to this assault but as this is a turn based game I have had my entire team whiped on the first round due to this tactic and my team not getting a chance to even cast our initial spells. 4 4 pip tempests and we are all dead.
Again I am not trying to bash on the spell itself but the way it is (over) used in PvP.
Tempest does rule the arena now and it is a little out of hand, I said just make limits to the ability of critical, I dont like how everyone can now just cast a 4 pip spell and critical it, just doesnt seem realistic a critical should be with a much stronger spell. And now no one really uses their 48 spells because gargantuan and a 4 pip spell is so much easier and now we are seeing that PvP isn't even strategy anymore its just blind luck. And of course people that don't know any strategy, or how to operate in PvP will defend their new found way of beating anyone in a few turns to the death, and thats why you have people that are posting against you.. I really think they should just make it, that it needs to be more than 4 pips to critical it. Because I think this is just creating a new line of PvPers that just don't know how to pvp. I tell you they think they are the best PvPers in the world but when they 1v1 they will never win. PvP system now a days is all luck strategy really doesnt exisist if you watch a 4v4 the whole strategy is i'll tempest with gargantuan, or ill meteor with gargantuan, and i should get a critical. Or then my pet should spritely to heal me its like. Where is the actual PvP. But its not changing as you can see by the people who disagree with you, People will never give up their new way of winning without having to think about the match and just blast and critical..
This is why I only 1v1 now (which I barely ever do anyways.)
tempest every turn would fail completely if player health were scaled according to match size.... 1v1 match = normal player health 100%, 2v2 match = 200% health, 3v3 = 300%, and 4v4 = 400%
when everyone uses mass attacks, the more players playing simply means health goes less and less far, you simply do not see people opening first turn in 1v1 matches with lower damage group attacks as they will be out of pips and not quickly defeating whomever they are up against
i agree storm is way over powered im sick of the insane bolts and stuff its unfare storm needs to be fixed not fare to other schools if they cant rank up because of storm i 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 and always lose because storm is to cheap they need to be fixed
... Really? Reduce it to 25 damage per pip? That makes it not worth anything at all at that point. Try playing as a storm and you'll see we have it very hard in PvP as well. We have low health, so we make up for it in attack power. But we lose defences when we bump our attack power up. So while you people can get up to 75% universal resist out there, we have a really tough time playing. Don't complain until you've walked a mile in our shoes.
Again i have not seen any death robes that have a lot of storm resistance you guys don't have that bad of health and a lot of your guys spells can be cast first turn life and death cant do anything any more its temp or some kind of bolt or storm lord its all really cheap you guys have way to much damage and way to high of a critical i hate dieing first turn to a storm who uses a bolt then critical killing me first turn for death our spells are weak we have some perks but now that our dragon is useless because of life and you guys have super resistance with the new robes pvp should be limited to so many of one type of school on a team and storm needs to have something taken away i have seen a lot of storm have a mastery amulet of life and get to sayter in life and never die
... Really? Reduce it to 25 damage per pip? That makes it not worth anything at all at that point. Try playing as a storm and you'll see we have it very hard in PvP as well. We have low health, so we make up for it in attack power. But we lose defences when we bump our attack power up. So while you people can get up to 75% universal resist out there, we have a really tough time playing. Don't complain until you've walked a mile in our shoes.
Haha heard the same reasoning used by ice wizards when everyone was complaining about them. How does it feel to be the new target. lol. If it isnt one school it is the other.
think KI needs to make the game the way they want to, how they want to engineer it and stop trying to please everyone. They should just make the message boards a no complaint board and just post actual helpful posts or posts that are not just complaints about everything! Gosh, it is just sickening to read all the time.
KI, keep the complaints to the test realms only. Please!, allow complaints for spells, gear, pvp, game in general while people test it, but come on end the message board complaints forum. The complaints about school vs school, this spell, that spell, yada yada yada just goes on and on and on and on.
Can you please explain the difference between complaining and trying to fix an issue? Cause if all I'm doing here is complaining and not bringing up an issue or ways to address it then I would appreciate the knowledge of the difference.
Personally I feel I have addressed an issue and I'm not complaining. I have not said that the Storm school is bad/OP/needs to not do PvP. I have not said that the spell Tempest is OP/needs to be removed/is bad.
What I am saying is the way it is being deployed/chained in PvP is an issue. The spell and School themselves are not the issue.
Let's put it this way, put us up against 4 Bosses simply using this tactic and let's see how we fair. Can we do that? Honestly, if you have an issue with boss cheats how would you feel if you went against 4 bosses that spammed Tempest at you.
Would that be an issue or simply a complaint? Just a thought.
I would not have an issue if 4 bosses spammed Tempest at me, it is part of the game... Heck, second round mobs in celestia can all hit with Storm lord or Frost Giant, they also spam wildbolt...
A complaint is when you say, storm team cheats, this is not fair...
Stating an issue, is like stating, there is a problem with chain stuns. A team can stun you each and every single round, never giving you even a chance to cast a card... This is not a complaint, this was a fact and one that there was no strategy against...
Now, KI fixed the Chain stun issue, since it was an actual issue and one that there was no strategy or way around it...
The tempest issue that you are referring to, there are ways around it or strategies to use against it... Therefor, this is a complaint and not an actual issue...
Furthermre, if you have such an issue with tempest and you insist on playing 4v4 matches, I suggest you get a pet that has, spritely, spell proof, May cast storm shield, and what ever other talent you may like...
Once again, proving, that there are ways to combat this scenario...
Just out of curiousity, has anyone that says Storm Teams Cheat ever done the math???
Do the math, if:
4 Fire all cast Meteor with Gargantuan 4 Ice all cast Blizzard with Gargantuan 4 Balance all cast Sandstorm with Gargantuan 4 Myth all cast Humungofrog with Gargantuan
Now, dont forget to add their attack bonus to their damages, also, dont forget to take away resistance...
Now, doing the Math, can storm survive first round??? Can other schools survive first round if all attack???
4v4 is not ideal when you are Legendary, players are quite powerful at that level... Now, if anyone successfully hits critical, most schools will die first round, if they don't most schools can survive first round attacks...
However, Storm, in most cases, depending on the pet, gear, and equipment storm chooses, Storm will not survive first round attacks, so How exactly is storm cheating???
Just out of curiousity, has anyone that says Storm Teams Cheat ever done the math???
Do the math, if:
4 Fire all cast Meteor with Gargantuan 4 Ice all cast Blizzard with Gargantuan 4 Balance all cast Sandstorm with Gargantuan 4 Myth all cast Humungofrog with Gargantuan
Now, dont forget to add their attack bonus to their damages, also, dont forget to take away resistance...
Now, doing the Math, can storm survive first round??? Can other schools survive first round if all attack???
4v4 is not ideal when you are Legendary, players are quite powerful at that level... Now, if anyone successfully hits critical, most schools will die first round, if they don't most schools can survive first round attacks...
However, Storm, in most cases, depending on the pet, gear, and equipment storm chooses, Storm will not survive first round attacks, so How exactly is storm cheating???
Ok darth thats not math now lets actually do some math now. Just because people have an attack on all that is 4 Pips doesnt mean it's a tempest lol.
The average storm will have a critical rate of 144. Which is a little more than a 1/4 of a chance of criticaling, to my understand that is a trait distinct to storm only so in that kind of math at least one of those storms should critical now lets actually look at the attack
80 x 4(assuming 2 powerpips which is quite standard) equals 320 + 225 or 250 depending on treasure garg or not
Now storm's standard legendary attack boost is 82% however the highest i have seen is 89%
the garg and the actual tempest damage is 545 x.82= 447 + 545= 992 thats the base damage not counting any blades.
992 is a base damage no blizzard, meteor, humango frog, or sandstorm would ever tred not even counting how much critical a storm has. And darth i'll tell your critical block advice doesnt really work. For one i myself have a bout 85 critical block, and of course i dont block. The higher your rating the more critical you will hit so you can stack all you want it wont work lol. And if your going second you can't cast conviction if your going second lol (if you can your pretty beast but i am just assuming that most people cant).
Lets see 992 criticaled is 1,984 now based on math at least one of the storm should critical, but because storm seems to have luck on their side a lot usually at least 2 will critical.
When you log on to wizard there is a quote that will say " No match ever plays out the same" which was something original to wizard but these tempest problems are completely destroying that idea because a lot of us know that, that match will be every storm casting tempest and its just ruining that fun strategy to the game its just making a repetitive motion..
Darth you call everyone complainers, when you actually do the math your just complaining about them seeing a flaw in the game..
Darthjt, you obviously don't listen or don't read the post! Tell me how to work around 4 storm blasting tempest in the first round killing the entire other team before they have a chance to cast ANYTHING?
My pet does have spritely but that didn't save me.
Again NO! This tactic is not a cheat but it IS just as fair as chain stuns. They found a tactic that worked but was an issue to the game so it got changed.
Chaining tempest is an issue. X pip spell so it can be cast over and over where with your example if you make it through the first round you will not be hit with those other spells again the next round.
But now I would like to see a fire team open with G meteor a ice team all hit with blizzard and myth open with frog just to see "the math" of it. But if even just one person survives how will the ice, fire or myth finish? Storm would reuse Tempest.
I do understand that storm have low health and if these other teams went against a team of storms and used this tactic they would likely kill all the storm in the first round. So was it the fun? Is that the key to PvP bliss is whipping the other team in round 1?
This is why THE TACTIC of using Tempest over and over is an ISSUE not just a complaint. You want to have fun just like everyone else does. Seeing the same spell repeated 4 times for 2-3 rounds until your team is dead is in no way fun.
Here we go again... First you get mad about Storm using bolt in PvP, now you get mad at us for Tempest. Well, us Storms are built on raw power, Tempest shows it. Like many posts said above we wouldn't be able to last your 4-pip AoE spells w/ Gargantuan. Just change your tactics or don't play 4v4 PvP, or any type of PvP.
From what I keep reading in the forums, everyone complains about Storm's power. This is exactly what happened to bolt, and KI made it worse to please everyone who was complaining. Well, stop complaining. There are real problems out there that need actual fixing. Like I said before, if you don't like it, just don't do it.
First off, a way to counter this, is to get a pet that has, may cast storm shield... Secondly, even though storm is the strongest and most powerful hitter in the game, 4 tempest right off the bat, does not mean full team is dead... Now, with this being said, lets take other teams against a full storm team and compare them, shall we?
Ok, math was pretty much given for storms tempest, pretty much, but lets recap shall we? 80 per pip x 4 = 320 + 225 Gargantuan = 545 + 82% = 992 Now subtract Universal Resistance; -35% = 645
So a full storm team = 645 x 4 = 2580
Now, not sure about you, but every school out there but storm can survive 2580 damage... Now, yes, there is critical chance, which means and lets be factual here and not use lucky as some have said, 1 out of 4 will be critical, since that is the supposed mathmatical equation... so, if 1 out of 4 hits critical add in another 645, for a total of 3225... Now, can this kill an entire team? I seem to recall some schools having more health than this, even more universal resistance than what is stated, being 35%...
Can a team survive 1st round Tempest? Answer is YES... Now, with a pet that casts storm shield, that will save a great deal of health, also one that has spell proof and spritely, will also heal you and save you from even more damage...
OK, now lets move on, shall we? Now, lets take Fire, shall we, lets do minimum damage for all of meteor... 305 + 225 = 530 + 60% = 848 - 35% = 551
Now 551 x 4 = 2204
This is the lowest amount of damage a full Fire team can do, without hitting a critical and stating that all 4 meteors do the least amount of damage that they can do... Can storm survive that? Most storm wizards can't, they dont get their health high enough...
Shall we go to Blizzard now? Now for Blizzard, I will be average and take the middle amount of Damage: 270 + 250 = 520 + 43% = 744 - 35% = 484
Now 484 x 4 = 1936
Yes, Storm can survive, barely, if nobody on Ice Hits critical, if they all do medium damage, if all of Ice have the same damage modifier, and if the full storm team all have at least 35% resistance...
Storm can win if they go first, if they get criticals, if the opponent does not have critical blocks, if the opponent does not have a pet with may cast storm shield talent, if the opponents have lower than 35% resistance, if the opponents have less than 2580 Health if all of the other factors fail...
Does not sound like a likely scenario for storm considering that if any other team goes first and attacks a full storm team...
You can even mix and match them...
If 1 uses froggy, one uses meteor, one uses blizzard, and one uses sandstorm, no matter how you mix or match, they do not even have to critical, it means that a full storm team is DEAD, defeated...
So, how is that for mathmatical calculations... So, if you see a full storm team, this should be your counter, because if you go first, storm team is dead, if they go first, storm team has a chance, but does not mean it will kill your team, and then they are dead with the counter attacks...
Thank you Darthjt for your math it is enlightening! With that all said how do I as a life wizard combat this?
I was killed in the opening sequence of a match along with my entire team to a full storm team before we even got a turn. I have 3300 health and didn't get to cast a single spell nor did any of my pets "may cast" abilities activate.
And like I said IF I survive the initial volley unlike the other schools storm can fire another volley of Tempest to finish the survivors.
But you do have a point that a may cast storm shield would be a way to counter this tactic so thanks I'll try to obtain one.
To pikachu99862, I never got mad at bolt or made any comment to it so I'm not sure why you would say such. Yes storm is designed to be a raw damage dealer and I don't have any issue with that I have an issue with one team same school using the same spell over and over again.
If I was witness to a full fire, ice, myth or balance using an attack all spell and whipIng a team in round one I would have an issue with that as well but as of yet I have only seen this from Storm.
Personally my solution would be that you only have one player per school or at most two to a team. I do enjoy PvP and as a true life wizard should I love being part of a team to accomplish the goal. Even if I survive round 1 I cannot supply heals to damage to make it a fight.
Dying in round one is not fun I don't really care how it happens.
First off, a way to counter this, is to get a pet that has, may cast storm shield... Secondly, even though storm is the strongest and most powerful hitter in the game, 4 tempest right off the bat, does not mean full team is dead... Now, with this being said, lets take other teams against a full storm team and compare them, shall we?
Ok, math was pretty much given for storms tempest, pretty much, but lets recap shall we? 80 per pip x 4 = 320 + 225 Gargantuan = 545 + 82% = 992 Now subtract Universal Resistance; -35% = 645
So a full storm team = 645 x 4 = 2580
Now, not sure about you, but every school out there but storm can survive 2580 damage... Now, yes, there is critical chance, which means and lets be factual here and not use lucky as some have said, 1 out of 4 will be critical, since that is the supposed mathmatical equation... so, if 1 out of 4 hits critical add in another 645, for a total of 3225... Now, can this kill an entire team? I seem to recall some schools having more health than this, even more universal resistance than what is stated, being 35%...
Can a team survive 1st round Tempest? Answer is YES... Now, with a pet that casts storm shield, that will save a great deal of health, also one that has spell proof and spritely, will also heal you and save you from even more damage...
OK, now lets move on, shall we? Now, lets take Fire, shall we, lets do minimum damage for all of meteor... 305 + 225 = 530 + 60% = 848 - 35% = 551
Now 551 x 4 = 2204
This is the lowest amount of damage a full Fire team can do, without hitting a critical and stating that all 4 meteors do the least amount of damage that they can do... Can storm survive that? Most storm wizards can't, they dont get their health high enough...
Shall we go to Blizzard now? Now for Blizzard, I will be average and take the middle amount of Damage: 270 + 250 = 520 + 43% = 744 - 35% = 484
Now 484 x 4 = 1936
Yes, Storm can survive, barely, if nobody on Ice Hits critical, if they all do medium damage, if all of Ice have the same damage modifier, and if the full storm team all have at least 35% resistance...
Storm can win if they go first, if they get criticals, if the opponent does not have critical blocks, if the opponent does not have a pet with may cast storm shield talent, if the opponents have lower than 35% resistance, if the opponents have less than 2580 Health if all of the other factors fail...
Does not sound like a likely scenario for storm considering that if any other team goes first and attacks a full storm team...
You can even mix and match them...
If 1 uses froggy, one uses meteor, one uses blizzard, and one uses sandstorm, no matter how you mix or match, they do not even have to critical, it means that a full storm team is DEAD, defeated...
So, how is that for mathmatical calculations... So, if you see a full storm team, this should be your counter, because if you go first, storm team is dead, if they go first, storm team has a chance, but does not mean it will kill your team, and then they are dead with the counter attacks...
From what you have said Darth you have just proved the point further that standard attacks wont kill in one turn and that storm even though health and resistance are their weakness they can still survive. And their tempests can kill teams in one turn... Thanks for proving my point. Storm is OP so accept don't argue it. If your really upset about this what do you want me to do i'll give you a cookie. Just don't argue something thats true lol.
! lol