The recent change to Guardian Sprit in test and now in the live game signals an important moment in the wizarding community. It is now clear to my mind that PvP is held above PvE by the game developers. It is apparent that the few coordinated complainers, and their many similar complaints as copied from a certain large fansite, have more value than the general PvE community in this game.
Ya know, I kinda feel like a serf, as if my yearly subscription fee pays for the PvP wizards to enjoy their obsession AND dictate the rules for all of us. I do wish we had been made aware that the PvE community are nothing more than wealthy sponsors for anonymous nobles. I might have saved the hundreds and hundreds of dollars I've spent in this game had I known it would only benefit a few self-styled nobility.
If this is the trend of the future, I may need a new game.
Most definitely NOT happy with the change of Guardian Spirit and what that change signals to the PvE community.
I have to say I agree, but I feel it's been clear that this game is geared more towards appealing to PvP players rather than staying true to the main method of combat in the game for quite a while now. I've been saying this since the beginning: PvP is becoming a real problem for those that don't play it exclusively. It's disappointing to me because many perfectly good spells have had to be drastically augmented or in some cases completely excluded because of this extracurricular activity. The Wizard101 developers as well as the players can't let their imaginations run wild when thinking about spell ideas because there's always the wrath of PvP whiners hanging over our heads. As much as I love this game (heck, I've been a dedicated player for the past three years), something needs to be done about PvP because frankly, I want nothing to do with it. If Wizard101 becomes any more about PvP than it already is...well, I'd hate to want nothing to do with a game I've invested so much time in.
KI is following the same path that a few other mmorpg's have taken,and regretted. They listen to complaints without merit,and make decisions based on volume of complaints rather than the quality of it. In no situation should the mechanics of pvp dictate or take priority over anything pve. There needs to be some changes for the betterment of the game,or KI will soon feel the exodus of its player base.
The recent change to Guardian Sprit in test and now in the live game signals an important moment in the wizarding community. It is now clear to my mind that PvP is held above PvE by the game developers. It is apparent that the few coordinated complainers, and their many similar complaints as copied from a certain large fansite, have more value than the general PvE community in this game.
Ya know, I kinda feel like a serf, as if my yearly subscription fee pays for the PvP wizards to enjoy their obsession AND dictate the rules for all of us. I do wish we had been made aware that the PvE community are nothing more than wealthy sponsors for anonymous nobles. I might have saved the hundreds and hundreds of dollars I've spent in this game had I known it would only benefit a few self-styled nobility.
If this is the trend of the future, I may need a new game.
Most definitely NOT happy with the change of Guardian Spirit and what that change signals to the PvE community.
Queenlybluebean, Iridian Shadowweaver, Theurgist
QBB,
So your saying if I PVP, I should have no input on PVE or the spells? That I can't complain to correct a mistake that was made. That it's not right to PVP and that all I should be doing is PVE. That after two or three days of being done with the new world, I am to go to the commons, and have a tea party? Would you please note the number of us that PVP in the spiral? PVP is a solid part of the game, and games that do not include some time of PVP are much like Club Penguin. I never played that game, and wouldn't play W101 if it didn't have PVE.
PVE is a simple part of the game, is that is all there was to do, me and a lot of others would not play.
Ahh Queenly, AkihiroHattori5, and Pyrsik I do so love your posts. I agree with what you all said.
In my mind it is time for PvP only gear, pets and spells, as well as PvE only gear, pets and spells. I have noticed a huge tear in fabric of our Wizard101 community because of changes related PvP problems. I think KI would be very wise to note and address the rift. It is getting wider and wider.
I also am seeing more and more PvE players expressing they feel like second class citizens. We all come through PvE first and foremost. Nobody can hit the Arena without going through PvE first.
The other huge rift is casual vs intense gamers. I see the game being more heavily influenced by the intense gamers with uber gear and pets. The average player with average gear and pets can hardly survive. Then the average folks are put down because they don't have uber gear. Sorry average to slightly above average stuff should get one through the game. Not every player has a posse to hang out with.
I would clap as well, but I can't type and clap at the same time
I feel most of the newest spells that came out benefit those in PVP, rather than those who PVE. I don't have a Life wizard, and I was upset that they nerfed Guardian Spirit due to the PVP complaints.
I don't PVP. I would like to, just for fun, however, hearing all the whining, complaining, rudeness, and spamming certain spells, pretty much kills it for me. PVP needs a complete overhaul, not just for playability, but in attitude as well.
PVE is the main portion of the program/game. PVP is such a tiny portion of the overall program, yet they seem to dictate how the game is to be played.
I'm not a Life wizard (primarily, anyway), but I do agree with you.
I've only been around for a year and a bit, and w101 is already a far cry from what it was when I started playing. Celestia onward is geared towards "professional" gamers- the PvP circuit, people who play like it's a job- while the casual crowd has been left in the dust.
Like many others, I am a paid subscriber (on 2 of my 5 accounts) with zero interest in PvP, and find it wrong that spells are nerfed just because the PvP community wants to have their cake and eat it, too. Yes, they pay for that feature, but so do we... and we suffer, without recompense, when they complain.
Don't get me wrong- I love this game. But, if the terms are all dictated by the PvP elite, then PvE players (like me, the OP, and others) will have no place here and eventually be forced out. Here's hoping that doesn't happen.
I either have or had high-level wizards from every school. I have no desire to see any school better than any other school. I'm am truly getting sick and tired, however, of having spells nerfed because some whiners who are addicted to PVP are constantly complaining about any spell that doesn't give them an advantage. My Life wizard has yet to actually need to use Guardian Spirit, but the continuing trend the nerfing of this spell represents is appalling. I've tried to be polite about all of this, but I'm at the point now that I want to scream (to keep it clean and family friendly) Forget the PVPers! I have nothing against PVP in and of itself, but stop hurting the rest of us who want to play PVE. Take a look at the nerfing of Guardian Spirit...and try for once to not focus on PVP. If you have 4000 health, a base GS spell will bring you back at 600 health now. God forbid you're a storm wizard with say 2500 health. You'll have a whopping 375 health...to defend yourself against enemies with huge health, a seemingly endless supply of pips, and access to the highest level spells in the game. Gee, I feel really bad for people who want to whine about how the spell is used in PVP, but how about making it worth using in PVE?
Tell you what, if you're going to keep nerfing some spells, just cut to the chase and nerf every school. Medusa? Does it really need to stun for two rounds? Let's nerf it down to one round stun. Ice school? does it really need that much resistance? Let's cut that down to size too. Maybe if you start nerfing the spells all these whiners are counting on they'll finally get a clue and shut up and leave the rest of us alone.
So your saying if I PVP, I should have no input on PVE or the spells? That I can't complain to correct a mistake that was made. That it's not right to PVP and that all I should be doing is PVE.
Nope, not at all. I am saying that PvP should not affect PvE as is currently happening. PvE players, as indicated by replies to my original post, do not enjoy changes to our game play due to the demands of PvP'ers.
That after two or three days of being done with the new world, I am to go to the commons, and have a tea party?
No, that's not my problem. If you and other wish to plow through new content quickly and not start new wizards, that's your choice. However, your style and pace of play should not affect that of casual gamers.
Would you please note the number of us that PVP in the spiral? PVP is a solid part of the game, and games that do not include some time of PVP are much like Club Penguin. I never played that game, and wouldn't play W101 if it didn't have PVE.
You tell me, Joe. As a PvP'er, please share the number of hard core players who find PvP to be the only enjoyable aspect of Wizard101. Are your summed subscription fees and crowns purchases enough to keep KI in business? Can Wizard101 survive without the larger PvE community?
PVE is a simple part of the game, is that is all there was to do, me and a lot of others would not play.
PvE is the central focus of Wizard101. It is a family game, meant for younger players, their parents, siblings, and friends. I highly doubt that the hard core, professional gamers who inhabit PvP in Wizard 101 are younger than 14 or 15. In fact, my suspicion is that PvP is composed mostly of the 16+ set of players who do practically nothing else except for PvP, train pets, and make elaborate arguments as to why PvE mechanics should be tailored to PvP.
Joe.
Joe, I'm sorry that you and I disagree on this topic. I enjoy reading your posts, and I respect your knowledge and skill in PvP. I think that such a hobby is no less wonderful and gratifying than my own PvE hobbies. However, I will never support the idea the PvP is more important than PvE in Wizard101, and I do not appreciate the current atmosphere of such an unequal treatment of the larger community to satisfy the desires of a few.
Why, oh, why can they just not just allow Guardian Spirit to be used in PvP? KI did that with insane bolt and the use of henchmen, so why not this spell too? I'm not fond of this changing spells because certain followers of PvP are unhappy with them. Not since its the PvE folks who are also having to pay the price as the newer worlds become more challenging for us.
I have no interest in PvP and don't plan on developing one either. I'd much rather quest than fight friends and/or other wizards. I have watched a few ranked matches, but not for long. It is a bit boring to me and I'm not slamming those who enjoy it. Its just my train of thought can easily be de-railed sometimes, or real life may intrude upon my game.
First off, what happened to you? You used to be a voice of reason, but lately, you seemed to be having a lot of misconceptions?
You stated:
So your saying if I PVP, I should have no input on PVE or the spells?
Nobody said that people that play PvP should have no input, what was stated, that people that PvP should keep PvE players in mind also, which is not the case at all.
That I can't complain to correct a mistake that was made.
A mistake? The mistake is listening to the PvP complainers. This is the biggest mistake made yet. When KI implemented new concepts, they should have made these new things NO PVP, because since that time, everything has been limited and nerfed by PvP, that is the mistake.
You want proof? +2 pip wands, simplify, elucidate. Great Ideas for PvE players, as we are supposed to be powerful wizards, battling the forces of evil to save the spiral. However, our power is held back, due to the fact that PvP players will complain of this power.
That it's not right to PVP and that all I should be doing is PVE.
Well, you have to PvE to level up for PvP.
That after two or three days of being done with the new world, I am to go to the commons, and have a tea party?
There are many things you can do, throw a tea party, garden, pet train, twiddle your thumbs, or complain on the message boards.
Would you please note the number of us that PVP in the spiral?
Oh, I would venture to guess, that less than 1/4 of the wizards in the spiral PVP and I would estimate that as a very good guess. So, you mean to tell me, that 1/4 of the spiral should dictate what happens to the other 3/4s?
PVP is a solid part of the game, and games that do not include some time of PVP are much like Club Penguin. I never played that game, and wouldn't play W101 if it didn't have PVE.
You do realize, when Wizards first came out, PvP was not included, right? It was some time before PvP was implemented. PvP is to test skill against another human opponent, not designed to limit the powers of wizards, which is what PvP is doing.
PVE is a simple part of the game, if PvE was all there is to do, me and a lot of others would not play.
Nobody is stating PvE should not be a part of the game, but more that PvP should not be the sole reason to limit and cap spells and Ideas.
Some things, such as +pip wands, criticals, and critical block, should all be No PvP items. This would truly make PvP a true PvP that would actually show the true strategy of a player and keep PvP from interfering with PvE.
Yes, that does mean some spells would also be made No PVP.
PvP is not on as high of a pedestal as you make it out to be. Most of the great posters here on the message boards, such as Gtarhannon, Colagada, QBB, Akihiro, Mom2, and a lot more that I am failing to mention, all of these people are not part of the PvP community. Some have tried PvP, but to be honest, most PvP players are arrogant, obnoxious, and self righteous. Not all mind you, but most.
The main problem is that PvP effects PvE and really limits the game.
So your saying if I PVP, I should have no input on PVE or the spells?
If I may interject; I feel we read two completely different versions of QBB's post. I could've sworn she meant that those who desire spell changes solely for the betterment of their PvP experience should have less influence on KI because, evidently, PvPers have total control over this game.
That I can't complain to correct a mistake that was made.
As long as the mistake is a legitimate concern in regards to the balance of power in the Spiral, by all means speak your mind. However, if your main purpose is to whine about minor inconveniences to your PvP experience it shouldn't be deemed such a threat of impending doom that KI must drop everything they're doing to fix it in my opinion.
That it's not right to PVP and that all I should be doing is PVE.
...I don't recall anyone mentioning this.
That after two or three days of being done with the new world, I am to go to the commons, and have a tea party?
Don't recall this being said either.
Would you please note the number of us that PVP in the spiral?
Would you please note that this isn't PvP101?
PVP is a solid part of the game, and games that do not include some time of PVP are much like Club Penguin. I never played that game, and wouldn't play W101 if it didn't have PVE.
PVE is a simple part of the game, is that is all there was to do, me and a lot of others would not play.
The fact being that PvP's mere existence has caused numerous changes to the game leads me to believe it's not "solid" in any sense of the word. KI needs to fix this before irreparable damage falls on the game and causes those who favor PvE over PvP to go elsewhere. As for PvE being a simple part of the game...I don't even know what to say to that.
I also am seeing more and more PvE players expressing they feel like second class citizens. We all come through PvE first and foremost. Nobody can hit the Arena without going through PvE first.
The other huge rift is casual vs intense gamers. I see the game being more heavily influenced by the intense gamers with uber gear and pets. The average player with average gear and pets can hardly survive. Then the average folks are put down because they don't have uber gear. Sorry average to slightly above average stuff should get one through the game. Not every player has a posse to hang out with.
"Second-class citizen"...that kinda hits the nail on the head. I've been trying to think of a way to describe how I feel as a casual player explicitly against PvP having to deal with the constant changes made to this game, and "second-class citizen" really encompasses all of that. It's unfortunate that such a phrase is so applicable to this situation being that I'm already a second-class citizen in the real world. It's heartbreaking to know that my own country considers me less of a citizen for circumstances beyond my control, but to come here and pay for a game that, despite being entertaining and fun, frankly discriminates against players like me is outrageous and erroneous. I'd say I refuse to be treated this way, but it's not like KI listens to anyone who isn't an fierce PvP competitior.
This game used to be great and convenient; now I can only play during the summer and on long weekends because the quests are simply too difficult and intricate for casual gamers to do solo. I shudder to think of what will happen when I finally graduate from college and start searching for employment. Unless KI is gonna offer me a job (which is highly unlikely), it seems it's only a matter of time before I'll have to close shop. It truly is devastating for me considering the time, money, and effort I've put into the game, but it's the ugly truth. Oh well; all good things come to an end, I suppose.
Joe, I'm sorry that you and I disagree on this topic. I enjoy reading your posts, and I respect your knowledge and skill in PvP. I think that such a hobby is no less wonderful and gratifying than my own PvE hobbies. However, I will never support the idea the PvP is more important than PvE in Wizard101, and I do not appreciate the current atmosphere of such an unequal treatment of the larger community to satisfy the desires of a few.
As always, Warmest Regards,
Qbb/Iridian Shadowweaver
QBB,
I'm sorry too, as I have agreed with everything that you have posted in the past. On this one subject we clearly have a different point of view.
My first question to you is this, if the PVP communinity left W101, could this game last, and if so, how long?
If you look at other Combat games, runescape, Call of Duty (many versions) and many platforms, Zombies, wow, and I can go on and on in a huge list. Any one of these games are simply huge when compaired to W101. The 10 million that W101 has does not compare in size to any one of these. KI knows that, and that is exactly why PVP was added to the game, to stop millions from getting bored after the completion of a world.
So, I really see it differently in the aspect that the PVE is all that keeps W101 alive. If you look at the massive amount of hardcore gammers (please see Gammer mag, Game informer, etc) and look at how many play PVP games, you will gain a different perspective. They list W101 and the number of players, they also list other games and the number of players. Believe me when I say, W101 PVE is still a very very small part of the PVP game world. I have two brothers, one that is 11, and one that is 14, I am older. Of all of their friends and all of mine, I don't know one that does not PVP. I think the three of us have brought in over 26 players to the game. It's not just boys that play PVP, lots of girls play it too.
So, when you say.... "I do not appreciate the current atmosphere of such an unequal treatment of the larger community to satisfy the desires of a few."
I do not feel that we are the few, but really and most likely the majority.
No one likes their spells nerfed, I wasn't happy when my Storm got nerfed. I most likely won't be very happy when they nerf Mana burn. I wasn't happy when I saw what my Death got for spells in Avalon. Lots of things have not make me happy, like the spell shatter. When I feel that a spell is very unfair, I complain, and I don't feel that it's wrong. If a spell makes PVP unplayable, or makes one Wizard far more powerful than another, I feel that KI needs to look at it.
KI has never changed a spell just because people have complained. I whinned when Judgement came out, it was as unfair as could be. I whinned when Fire hound came out at 130 per pip. My whinner list goes on and on, but KI never changed one of them. That convinced me that they only change a spell when it really needs to be changed.
If you take PVP out of the game, it will eventually fail, I have seen this in several games on the www (unless geared for very small children).
If we only had PVE, then your correct, no spell needs to be changed. Since all spells affect both halfs of the game, all spells need to be fair to both sides.
If I tried to qoute everyone here, It would not get posted.
I have to agree with all but one replying to this issue.
I do have a life wizard, in fact I have 2. One on each account and they are my main wizards. I do have Death, Storm, Balance, Myth and Fire. Most of them sit.
PvP is not the main focus of Wizard101. But it seems that PvP has become the controlling entity. This should never have happened. PvPers should have to deal with the spells as they were released and learn how to deal with them. Nerfing them just because they don't want to take the time to come up with a strategy, or it takes them longer to defeat an opponent is causing some serious imbalance in PvE. The only time a spell should be altered for ANY reason is if there is an actual problem with the spell that keeps it from working the way it is intended. If those few in the PvP community can't work with what we are given, then, make those NO PvP.
I did start PvP with my fire wizard but quit just for these same reasons. I did not agree that a spell should have been nerfed because some of the higher rank decided it was a disadvantage to their playing style. What about the playing style of those of the LARGER PvE community? It makes no difference that we don't want our spells made virtually useless.
Like many others, I don't PAY TO PLAY so PvPers can whine and cry about a spell being OP and get it changed to their satisfaction. I did not have a problem with PvP being added to the game until these changes started happening. IMHO, PvP is a way to HONE your skills, NOT to tear everyone else's down.
If you take PVP out of the game, it will eventually fail, I have seen this in several games on the www (unless geared for very small children).
Joe, NO ONE is asking PvP to be taken out of the game. And YOU might want to take a look at the RATING of Wizard101. It is E10+, and there are some families with children as young as 8 playing Wizard101.
But PvP does need a major overhaul and brough back into prospective to what it really should be. When this happens, IT just might help heal the rift that has become so Wide(as was already stated). Maybe more players would be interested in doing PvP or even return to PvP. But as it stands now, the community as a whole no longer exists.
Myself, like the others, I am getting tired of taking a backseat to PvPers regardless of school. The only one I don't have is Ice. But between 2 accounts, there is still room. Not sure that is going to happen now. What is the point in continuing if everything is going to continue to be NERFED?
Darthjt posted,"Oh, I would venture to guess, that less than 1/4 of the wizards in the spiral PVP and I would estimate that as a very good guess. So, you mean to tell me, that 1/4 of the spiral should dictate what happens to the other 3/4s?".
Darthjt,
I have no wish to hijack this post from QBB. All I have to say is, you ventured a guess and it is nothing more than a guess. Your estimate could be are far off as the moon or the sun, as you have no real idea at all. I will respond to no more postings on this subject.
If you look at the massive amount of hardcore gammers (please see Gammer mag, Game informer, etc) and look at how many play PVP games, you will gain a different perspective. They list W101 and the number of players, they also list other games and the number of players. Believe me when I say, W101 PVE is still a very very small part of the PVP game world.
Joe that paragraph stuck out to me. I don't care what "hardcore gamers" say about Wizard and PvP. The point of the game is not PvP. Can you show me one player that has not entered PvE first. PvE was the and still is the core of the game. No goes straight to PvP, one must do at least the beginning of PvE to get to the arena. PvP is an add on to PvE like pets, gardening and crafting. End game content is the term I use for those activities.
KI enjoys a unique niche and should remain true to that IMO. It gained popularity because it was different from most other games out there. My friends and I all started playing because it was fun and easy. It has become more and more like job.
You want to see Wizard101 fold? Have all of casual family players leave. Despite your assertion to the contrary, I believe PvP players are not the majority. I agree with Darth that PvP is about 1/4 of the player base. Only KI knows for sure and I will admit I might be wrong. But my experience with my friends and causal conversation in game leads me to believe I am right. My friends and I who don't PvP all hold multiple accounts. I have 3 friends that have PvPed. The rest don't and have no interest in it.
I realize PvP brings enjoyment to many and is an important part of the game to people. I just don't happen to agree if it is OP in PvP, it is OP in PvE. I also don't like the everything must be the same for both. Darth stated quite well things that could help PvE players that were not introduced or nerfed due to PvP. IMO PvE is out of balance now due to that.
Darth thank you so much for the nice compliment. I know we have disagreed on occasion. I do read and think about your posts. Food for thought and different ideas are good things.
My first question to you is this, if the PVP communinity left W101, could this game last, and if so, how long?
Seeing as this game started without PvP, and continued to grow and expand, I don't think there would be too big of a difference if the PvP community left, except the fact, that there would be fewer complaints and rudeness in this game.
If you look at other Combat games, runescape, Call of Duty (many versions) and many platforms, Zombies, wow, and I can go on and on in a huge list. Ah yes, let's look at those shall we? Multi-Player games that are on a real-time basis. Call of duty for instance, 2 or more players, that can combat eachother in hardcore, capture the flag, or other type scenarios, that are not turn based, pip based, or school based. Another difference, is that These games truly are not strategy based, but more hand-eye coordination more than anything. To prove this fact, go out sometime and play a scenario via paint ball, much like a real war. You can be hit, without seeing where it came from, you don't respawn as much as you like, like in hardcore. You don't have different health and resistance values. Comparison is like comparing the Monopoly Board game to Super Mario Brothers.
Any one of these games are simply huge when compaired to W101. The 10 million that W101 has does not compare in size to any one of these. KI knows that, and that is exactly why PVP was added to the game, to stop millions from getting bored after the completion of a world.
Where exactly are you getting your figures from? You want us to back up our statements, where is your proof? Call of Duty is much different, it is more designed for PvP than it is for multi-player questing. That is a fact, where-as in Wizards, you must quest in order to PvP.
So, I really see it differently in the aspect that the PVE is all that keeps W101 alive. If you look at the massive amount of hardcore gammers (please see Gammer mag, Game informer, etc) and look at how many play PVP games, you will gain a different perspective.
Yes, there is no denying that PvP games are huge. The format and concept is what makes each game unique. The fact that Wizard101 is unlike any of the others, is what makes it so unique, fun, and popular!
They list W101 and the number of players, they also list other games and the number of players. Believe me when I say, W101 PVE is still a very very small part of the PVP game world.
Just because a game has a PvP concept, does not make it a PvP game. This game does not survive, nor thrive on PvP. Without PvE, you would not have a game or PvP to begin with. It's like the chicken or the egg, PvE or PVP in Wizards, well, sorry Joe, but PvE came long before PvP did. I have two brothers, one that is 11, and one that is 14, I am older. Of all of their friends and all of mine, I don't know one that does not PVP. I think the three of us have brought in over 26 players to the game. It's not just boys that play PVP, lots of girls play it too.
Nobody has once said, that it is not OK to PvP. Nobody even said that they should not voice any opinion. What is being said, is that the PvP voice is dominant over the PvE voice, when it shouldn't be. PvP is and continues to limit the growth and expansion of this game.
So, when you say.... "I do not appreciate the current atmosphere of such an unequal treatment of the larger community to satisfy the desires of a few."
I do not feel that we are the few, but really and most likely the majority. Where are your facts to prove this point? Every post, poll, and most threads, here and on Central, point that most people don't pvp. Why? Because PvP is unfair, flawed, rude, name-calling, and this list goes on and on why the majority of players in this game, Do Not PVP.
So, when you can show proof of your statements, then maybe we will give them some merit, but as it stands, even now, you are severely outnumbered. Where are all your PvP players posts to back you?
No one likes their spells nerfed, I wasn't happy when my Storm got nerfed. I most likely won't be very happy when they nerf Mana burn. I wasn't happy when I saw what my Death got for spells in Avalon. Lots of things have not make me happy, like the spell shatter. When I feel that a spell is very unfair, I complain, and I don't feel that it's wrong. If a spell makes PVP unplayable, or makes one Wizard far more powerful than another, I feel that KI needs to look at it.
Exactly, nobody wants to be nerfed, nobody likes it when someone else starts picking on their school. Such as when I did about Fire, who has been on top of the PvP Leader Boards, since the beginning. I said to start nerfing fire before you nerf other schools. Fire Warlords got irate at that, but it is okay for them to ask any other school that challenges them?
KI has never changed a spell just because people have complained. I whinned when Judgement came out, it was as unfair as could be. I whinned when Fire hound came out at 130 per pip. My whinner list goes on and on, but KI never changed one of them. That convinced me that they only change a spell when it really needs to be changed. People whine all the time, because they cant find a way around a spell, such as you and Shatter. But to continue to want spells being removed or reduced is limiting this game to a pvp only concept. Which is what this whole post is all about.
If you take PVP out of the game, it will eventually fail, I have seen this in several games on the www (unless geared for very small children).
Again, you have no facts to prove this. I honestly believe, if PvP was not in wizard101, it would flourish and be an even better game, why? Because you would not have to limit the creativity, the spells, the mobs, or have limitations on anything.
If we only had PVE, then your correct, no spell needs to be changed. Since all spells affect both halfs of the game, all spells need to be fair to both sides.
your friend, Joe.
Again Joe, PvP is not 1/2 the game, it truly is 1/4 of the game, but as I expect, you will deny what is right in front of your nose. If it were a snake, you would have been bitten.
You have also stated, that +2 Pip wands, elucidate, simplify, and other type of spells are not needed in the game. This is true, as is true, that PvP, or new gear, or new spells, or new level caps, or new pets, or new equipment, or new plants is not really needed in the game. Why continue to improve and expand? Why have new things? Why make new worlds and new spells? Why do anything? Sorry, but if you think that is a good response and reason, then you are way off base.
Seeing as you are greatly outnumbered on this issue Joe, and you always will be, I do agree with you, you should not post any further on this issue.
PvP is not the main focus of Wizard101. But it seems that PvP has become the controlling entity. This should never have happened. PvPers should have to deal with the spells as they were released and learn how to deal with them. Nerfing them just because they don't want to take the time to come up with a strategy, or it takes them longer to defeat an opponent is causing some serious imbalance in PvE. The only time a spell should be altered for ANY reason is if there is an actual problem with the spell that keeps it from working the way it is intended. If those few in the PvP community can't work with what we are given, then, make those NO PvP.
Well said no other way to point it out !
goldendragon18 wrote:
I don't PAY TO PLAY so PvPers can whine and cry about a spell being OP and get it changed to their satisfaction.
With you 100 % on this also i don't pay to play to listen to it also.
Pvpers don't need to pay to pvp but if we want lvl 80 we pay and we do. But we should NOT be paying for pvpers to be happy.
Everyone must do PVE in order to advance a character toward end-game. All PVP players are, at various times, PVE players.
No one must PVP in order to advance a character toward end-game. Not all PVE players are PVP players. PVP is a peripherial activity that is incidental to progress even less so than gardening, crafting and pet training. Therefore, by the very nature of this fact, PVP will never be greater than PVE in this game. All simply remains greater than some, no matter how you count it.
I have no problem with people who want to play on PVP. In so far as I can tell, nobody is asking PVP be discontinued. If you have the brains and the iron skin to tolerate it, more power to 'ya. There is something about PVP that holds true in every place you find it. PVP seems to always attract the most knowledgeable players, the true students of the games, but it also attracts some of the most insufferably arrogant, crude and rude personalities you are ever likely to run across in the online world. I spent years on other mmorpg's doing PVP, only to find that, after a certain point, I was worn out with the non stop grind it took to make even minamal progress in rank. In PVE questing groups, anyone not dressed in epic PVP gear from head to toe became a persona non-grata as one moved toward end game. Anytime new abilities were implemented that the PVP community didn't like, large guilds of them would threaten the game with leaving en masse and the issue would be changed to their satisfaction, no matter how detrimental the effect on the classes of the general gaming world who did not PVP. I really thought I had escaped that environment and would be saddened greatly to find it sprouting here as well. I finally threw in the towel on my efforts with the other mmorpg's after close to 5 years. I'm basically done with that aspect of gaming and I won't PVP anymore, ever, nor will I support a game that requires me to do so in any way for the advancement of my character. Anyone who wants that joy is welcome to my helping of it. I've only been on Wizards 101 a few months, but detected none of those issues here and it was an incredible breath of fresh air. Until now. The nature of this game prevents most (if not all) the issues I had with other heavily PVP mmorpg's, but there is a definate disturbance in the force when a spell for a single class makes it out of test realm to live and is roundly shouted down because the reigning warlord schools in the PVP community have to take a few extra rounds to win a match they would (should?) have won anyway. Meanwhile, my wizard that I have worked so hard with is left bereft of the benefits of a spell that was nerfed for no other apparent reason other than it impacted PVP. I get the detriment of the nerf, but not the benefit it gave to PVP. What, exactly, is fair about that? But Perhaps KI could shed some light on their motives in making the change and remove the speculation for everyone. If it was done for legitimate reasons and concerns about game play on the part of developers, I'd like to know them. If it was done to placate PVP, as seems more likely than not given the general uproar over there since the spell was implemented, then I'd like to know that, too. The real issue here is not that I want my school or any school to have an overpowering advantage. I don't think most people want that, to be honest. I simply do not desire to have the spells and power my character has access to dictated, approval stamped, or redacted at will by a PVP function of Wizards 101 which has no bearing on the realm of play I choose to participate in. Been there, done that, still wearing the T-shirt. PVP issues should be fixed on the PVP side in a way that they do not impact me. Plain and simple, once something emerges from test realm, issues should not be unforeseen. Even many of the PVP voices of reason were far sighted enough to be against the life nerf, but it seems they were swarmed under in the general outcry. They were smart enough to wonder the same thing I am wondering, who's next? The moral of the story from a long time gamer; the smartest way to fix a leaky faucet is not with a nerf-bat. It's too easy to swing wide and hit the porcelain in the china cabinet.
Oh, I would venture to guess, that less than 1/4 of the wizards in the spiral PVP and I would estimate that as a very good guess. So, you mean to tell me, that 1/4 of the spiral should dictate what happens to the other 3/4s?
That is actually a very good guess. I have researched this topic in-depth,and for the big games that offer pve/pvp,about 8-22 percent make up the pvp part. PVE is by far the dominate force that drives these games.
Megan wrote:"I realize PvP brings enjoyment to many and is an important part of the game to people. I just don't happen to agree if it is OP in PvP, it is OP in PvE. I also don't like the everything must be the same for both. Darth stated quite well things that could help PvE players that were not introduced or nerfed due to PvP. IMO PvE is out of balance now due to that. "
Megan,
Four things:
1. PVE and PVP are linked, and this is the way the game is designed. I have watched this game go from them basically being separate, to a blend as they are now. I do not see that changing, no matter what people ask KI to do. Yes, that is my opinion I know, but I feel that is a solid guess, based on the tread that KI had followed so far.
2. Since they are linked, and that link seems to be getting stronger as each world passes, I can see PVP affecting PVE on an ongoing bases. Yes, that is a guess on my part, but based on what I said above, it's something I believe to be true. If a spell seems unfair to everyone I talk to, and people are really upset, we will always see postings. On this board or any of the other boards. Remember, this board and Central are not the only chat boards about W101. As of today, I'm not even sure I would say that Central is the largest board out there, but it's close.
3. This is something I really honestly do not understand, and if you could give me insight, I would appreciate it. I really do not see how a spell can be overpowered in PVE. I was able to solo almost all of Avalon on my Balance. I was able to solo almost all of Avalon on my Myth. So what if I could do that in half the time, or a quarter? Why would I need my Myth, Ice, Death, Life, or Storm any stronger than they are now in PVE?
4. Last, just because PVP affects PVE, and a spell gets nerfed a bit, what reall affect does it have to PVE? Dropping Guardian Spirit to 15% makes no real difference in the game at all. It won't really affect PVE very much, and it will have little affect in PVP. As (I think) Darthjt stated, dropping it to be used in PVP only once would have been the right thing to do. There was no real need to drop it to 15%. This was KI's choice and they must have done it for a reason. Since no one knows what KI has in plan for the community, how can anyone say why it was done the way it was done? No one knows the reason behind the change, except KI. Let me end this book with this, KI has never nerfed spells just because of complaints. I remember seeing a huge number of complaints on Judge, Heckhound, etc, etc, and they never once even considered a change. Here just a few complaints got a change, why..... because it had a real issue??? Only thing that comes to my mind.
Good luck in the spiral, my time is almost at an end.
Megan wrote:"I realize PvP brings enjoyment to many and is an important part of the game to people. I just don't happen to agree if it is OP in PvP, it is OP in PvE. I also don't like the everything must be the same for both. Darth stated quite well things that could help PvE players that were not introduced or nerfed due to PvP. IMO PvE is out of balance now due to that. "
Megan,
Four things:
1. PVE and PVP are linked, and this is the way the game is designed. I have watched this game go from them basically being separate, to a blend as they are now. I do not see that changing, no matter what people ask KI to do. Yes, that is my opinion I know, but I feel that is a solid guess, based on the tread that KI had followed so far.
2. Since they are linked, and that link seems to be getting stronger as each world passes, I can see PVP affecting PVE on an ongoing bases. Yes, that is a guess on my part, but based on what I said above, it's something I believe to be true. If a spell seems unfair to everyone I talk to, and people are really upset, we will always see postings. On this board or any of the other boards. Remember, this board and Central are not the only chat boards about W101. As of today, I'm not even sure I would say that Central is the largest board out there, but it's close.
3. This is something I really honestly do not understand, and if you could give me insight, I would appreciate it. I really do not see how a spell can be overpowered in PVE. I was able to solo almost all of Avalon on my Balance. I was able to solo almost all of Avalon on my Myth. So what if I could do that in half the time, or a quarter? Why would I need my Myth, Ice, Death, Life, or Storm any stronger than they are now in PVE?
4. Last, just because PVP affects PVE, and a spell gets nerfed a bit, what reall affect does it have to PVE? Dropping Guardian Spirit to 15% makes no real difference in the game at all. It won't really affect PVE very much, and it will have little affect in PVP. As (I think) Darthjt stated, dropping it to be used in PVP only once would have been the right thing to do. There was no real need to drop it to 15%. This was KI's choice and they must have done it for a reason. Since no one knows what KI has in plan for the community, how can anyone say why it was done the way it was done? No one knows the reason behind the change, except KI. Let me end this book with this, KI has never nerfed spells just because of complaints. I remember seeing a huge number of complaints on Judge, Heckhound, etc, etc, and they never once even considered a change. Here just a few complaints got a change, why..... because it had a real issue??? Only thing that comes to my mind.
Good luck in the spiral, my time is almost at an end.
Joe.
You have been playing this game less than 2 years and you profess to know more that those that have been playing since the beginning? Odd.
replies to your numbered comments. 1. PvE and PvP WERE linked at one time. It used to be fun to go and try to come up with a new strategy for battling those bosses of the same or opposing schools. I left PvP when the nerfing began. I stated before and say again. "PvP needs a major overhaul and restored to what it was. This might make it more balanced. Stop nerfing spells because some don't want to take the time to come up with a new strategy against a new spell."
2. Again, NO longer linked. PvP has been having an unbalancing effect on PvE for a long time. Have you not paid any attention to the dividing line that has been drawn between the PvP and PvE community. This should never have happened.
No, this board and Central are no longer the only forums. I have joined another, but don't go there because of a comment that was made against Central members. This board and Central are the original and main one and will remain so.
3. No one has said a spell was OP in PvE. All of the OP statements are coming from some of the PvPers.
4. Spells getting nerfed for PvP is affecting PvE considerably. Where our wizards should be getting stronger for the purpose of fighting evil in the spiral, they are instead being weakened. Why should the PvE community have to suffer this weakening because a few who PvP can't or don't want to learn a new strategy. Have they forgotten that the bosses and dungeons are getting harder?
I subbed this game because it was fun and a good way to relax. I don't pay to play so that a few can weaken my wizards(9) just so they can keep an advantage in what was a side feature but was also just as much fun at one time.....
I play to have fun and relax. This was my way to get away from the reality of the real world for a few hours.
I agree with this post. I am writing another post of my own involving the same issues. I will be emailing the staff directly as well. It seems like the PvP community gets their way because of their complaining. Because they are the loudest. I do not mean to imply that everyone who plays PvP is like this. I am sure many PvP players are quite lovely. Unfortunately, people who are dissatisfied are always more vocal than those who are satisfied. The players who are happy with the spells the way they are shouldn't be expected to rise up and shout down the other side, but maybe that is the only thing that will work. I am hoping more people voice their displeasure with the situation.
3. No one has said a spell was OP in PvE. All of the OP statements are coming from some of the PvPers.
I subbed this game because it was fun and a good way to relax. I don't pay to play so that a few can weaken my wizards(9) just so they can keep an advantage in what was a side feature but was also just as much fun at one time.....
I play to have fun and relax. This was my way to get away from the reality of the real world for a few hours.
goldendragon18 my friend so glad to see you here. :D
I believe Joe was asking to have that PvP assertion (#3) explained. I don't get it either and disagree when it is said on Central. I believe there is a line of thought in the PvP community that all things should be equal in PvE and PvP. I disagree.
I too play to have fun. That is why I subbed. CL forward changed the game dynamics a lot. That is when PvP seemed to explode. I just don't remember seeing all the hoopla before that. I freely admit it most likely is I just wasn't aware of it. I am thinking maybe that is Joe thinks there was divide.
