We recently made a decision to remove the Enchant treasure cards from the vendors in Test Realm. I’ll explain our reasoning for the change, what we’ve done today, and how we are thinking about future changes.
We are holding off on this change while we weigh the relative pros and cons of how Enchant cards are used in the game. We are always looking for ways to fine tune the balance of the game. It was never our intention for players to have an essentially limitless supply of treasure cards. Because we want players to use and value their treasure cards, we feel it’s important for them to be available in the right way and the right amount. Thanks to your feedback on the Test Realm, we determined that removing the Enchants at this time would cause some unintended frustration in PVP, and also in some tougher PVE battles. We’ll look to the resolution of those PvP and PvE issues separately before moving forward with this change.
Speaking of moving forward… I’ll speak on this a little more in an upcoming Producer Letter, but as we forge our way into our eleventh year of Wizard101 and beyond, we’ll be scrutinizing the entire game experience. We want to have a fun, fair, and compelling game for both new players embarking on the quest to save Wizard City for the first time as well as our community that’s been with us for a decade or more. While we will consider any changes to long standing conventions carefully going forward, we will absolutely consider them if they make Wizard101 better for everyone, overall.
The Deckathalon is slated to kick off next month (look for a post on our planned rollout of the changes that are on Test Realm from Sparck shortly), so look for more information coming soon on the first event. As always, we appreciate and value the feedback we get from our community on the Test Realm and we hope that you are as excited about the Spring update going live (very very very) soon as we are!
See you in the Spiral, Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!
“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.”
Professor Falmea
We recently made a decision to remove the Enchant treasure cards from the vendors in Test Realm. I’ll explain our reasoning for the change, what we’ve done today, and how we are thinking about future changes.
We are holding off on this change while we weigh the relative pros and cons of how Enchant cards are used in the game. We are always looking for ways to fine tune the balance of the game. It was never our intention for players to have an essentially limitless supply of treasure cards. Because we want players to use and value their treasure cards, we feel it’s important for them to be available in the right way and the right amount. Thanks to your feedback on the Test Realm, we determined that removing the Enchants at this time would cause some unintended frustration in PVP, and also in some tougher PVE battles. We’ll look to the resolution of those PvP and PvE issues separately before moving forward with this change.
Speaking of moving forward… I’ll speak on this a little more in an upcoming Producer Letter, but as we forge our way into our eleventh year of Wizard101 and beyond, we’ll be scrutinizing the entire game experience. We want to have a fun, fair, and compelling game for both new players embarking on the quest to save Wizard City for the first time as well as our community that’s been with us for a decade or more. While we will consider any changes to long standing conventions carefully going forward, we will absolutely consider them if they make Wizard101 better for everyone, overall.
The Deckathalon is slated to kick off next month (look for a post on our planned rollout of the changes that are on Test Realm from Sparck shortly), so look for more information coming soon on the first event. As always, we appreciate and value the feedback we get from our community on the Test Realm and we hope that you are as excited about the Spring update going live (very very very) soon as we are!
See you in the Spiral, Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!
Thank you!
This is all really positive and exciting for the future
I'm so excited about the updates and the new Deckathalon events...fun times to be had for sure!
People and things can change sure, I think we are all aware of it and if the game changes short term to reach some long term goal, I am sure most would be with you.
But when a drastic change like this happens in the 11th hour with no preparation or clarification, there is going to be issues.
Even though this has been temporarily resolved, it has still left a negative taste in people mouths about something that was seen as a positive update. Perhaps you can keep this in mind for any future implementations.
One thing the community appreciates is adequate communication.
This is especially important when changes are being made to the game; feedback also is necessary.
Now, the enchant treasure card issue was spontaneous and hence not expected.
It shook many of us in a way that left us feeling neglected.
While I understand that this was not the ideal intention, it is important that before changes like this are made (thanks for having it in the test realm before implementing in Live Realm first), we would like it to be communicated to us prior to it.
I always say this, if you are unsure about how a particular decision will affect the community or its response, just ask.
We are a very vibrant bunch and will not hesitate to share our thoughts.
If unlimited supply of TCs was never intended why is there a TC vendor in almost every world starting with WC, was this fact just missed during every single expansion?
If you meant to say enchants specifically, when the vendors were revamped in the spring 2015 update and the enchants also went mysteriously missing, there was backlash and it was attributed to a oops.
Yet here we are 4 years later, but this time we get a vague 1 liner buried in a hot fix note. Your audience is no longer 10 years old, I think it is time to agree more transparency is needed here.
Regardless of whether this change is good for the longevity of the game or not, the players were ill informed or prepared to deal with it through no fault of theirs.
We all want this game to succeed and if change is needed to do that I am sure we are willing to change, we just need more information up front!
Hi, a solution to the enchant problem would be to make enchants level based. If the person gardens higher level enchants then they should not be able to use them until they reach a certain level. I think a good level for each enchant would be:
"It was never our intention for players to have an essentially limitless supply of treasure cards." How is that possible, since it's been that way for years? You even added a number of previously limited cards to vendors a couple years ago, after polling players to ask what we wanted. The general reaction to that was positive all around. Limiting them after all this time seems crazy.
This kind of discontinuity -- buffing something in one update, nerfing it later -- is an ongoing source of irritation to much of the player base. If something isn't causing a major problem, leave things as they are. If you introduce a new feature that suddenly impacts a an existing mechanic, adjust the new feature, don't gut things globally.
I realize devs come and go, but it's bizarre and disturbing when familiar bits of our game suddenly do a 180. Perhaps it matters less what the original intention was, and more what players have come to expect?
I'm glad you brought this back. Can't believe a decade old mechanic was almost removed. Makes me worried for the future but I'm also optimistic about these changes you're discussing.
I am glad to hear that you are at least delaying this change.
As far as having an unlimited number of treasure cards--that is already limited by the size of our side deck.
Non-Balance wizards won't mind, but eliminating sale of Unstoppable treasure cards would greatly change the usability of Supernova spell.
'As far as having an unlimited number of treasure cards--that is already limited by the size of our side deck' ~ Liam Swiftwalker.
I really like this point and think it may be very relevant in future discussions about the vendors
Is having access to purchase the TC causing an imbalance? Does owning lots of it cause an imbalance? Or is it the usage of the TC by wizards who technically shouldn't have access to it yet that causes an imbalance?
At this point I'm thinking a level lock on using them might be a viable (and somewhat agreeable) solution...but the discussion could easily bring up things I haven't thought of that make me have to rethink or see it from a different perpective. I'm looking forward to us all discussing the balance of W101 and sharing thoughts and ideas to make the game an even better experience for everyone
I've been playing this game for 10 years, and this was one of the biggest things to make me want to quit and never play again. Now I know everyone says that they'll quit and come back, but this would of been it for me.
If you really want to balance something, how about balance PVP? You are doing something that would of been game breaking.
Enchanting is the only way treasure cards can be obtained for special school only spells and not all of the "card packs" will give these kinds of tc's either.
So, instead of deciding to break the game that you have absolutely no experience with playing, you focus on first doing what Spark did and play the game for yourself outside of the developer server, make a wizard and try to quest to level 50 on your own without any TC's.
Because I did that when Dragon Spyre first came out, and it was brutal. There was no TC's until later.
Those helped me a lot, having enchantments allowed me to get through some really tough solo bosses at the time.
PVP, if anything is what needs balancing here, not tc's. Please stop trying to put a band aid on everything, and please stop trying to pull an EA and not mention the "treasure cards" that you removed. It's morally wrong, if you're going to remove anything in the future, ask us the community for our input and explain why you're removing something before you actually do it, because unless you play the game yourself, you really have no say in any of this.
You are not the customer, we are. We know what's best, we know what we want.
Start engaging with us more, ask us what we want in updates. Ask for our opinions before making any big change like this.
I've not seen a problem with Treasure cards in general. I'm not sure what was being "fixed" or "balanced" but I'm glad nothing is being removed or limited.
Generally taking something away from players is going to be unpopular. That should always be a last resort. A more targeted response is likely to go over better.
If you reward grinding, players are going to grind. Creating artificial scarcity of a resource being used to do so is going to cause frustration and resentment. Better to adjust the incentive.
For example, rather than limiting card availability, limit the number of times we can run the instance in a given time period. Or change the scoring system to reward success percentage, efficiency, speed, or such, rather than rote repetition.
I think it is worth noting that enchantment cards are introduced in the "Advanced Combat" lesson given by Diego at level 8 in the game. In it, he notes that any unused treasure cards go back in the deck. Granted we are talking about Tough at this level. But still, this looks intentional to me!
I personally don't go out of my way to pre-enchant treasure cards, but my lower level ice wizard likes to keep a few enchantment cards in the side deck. And, of course, my more advanced wizards have enchantment spells available from the sun school.
I don't like this idea either about baning certain TCs from Vender. But we can't win it all. Since KI team went to school for gaming, I trust their judgment and reasons. Specailly when I'm not there to know what they're doing. So I'm going to remain positive by saying thank you KI for keeping the schools of magic balanced as much as possible and finding new ways to improve the game . (thumbs up!) I know PVPis a problem for many but how can we fix that up without ruining PVE.
I don't like this idea either about baning certain TCs from Vender. But we can't win it all. Since KI team went to school for gaming, I trust their judgment and reasons. Specailly when I'm not there to know what they're doing. So I'm going to remain positive by saying thank you KI for keeping the schools of magic balanced as much as possible and finding new ways to improve the game . (thumbs up!) I know PVPis a problem for many but how can we fix that up without ruining PVE.
Pretty simple, just seperate the 2 already, we have many no PvP tcs, critical works different in PvP also, so should not be too hard to work on PvP without effecting PvE.
Although PvE is so easy these days, I do not see how they can mess it up, unless they nerf it even more.
As for the enchant TCs, they were removing only once source, which means many would have an unfair advantage over others if they garden or craft them, does this sound balanced to you?
Pretty simple, just seperate the 2 already, we have many no PvP tcs, critical works different in PvP also, so should not be too hard to work on PvP without effecting PvE.
Although PvE is so easy these days, I do not see how they can mess it up, unless they nerf it even more.
As for the enchant TCs, they were removing only once source, which means many would have an unfair advantage over others if they garden or craft them, does this sound balanced to you?
What's unbalanced and unfair or not is widely opinionated from one person to the next. Any game played can be unfair and/or unbalanced or not to those who look for their own standards and expectations. I don't take notes and legislate myself to judge a game I play and don't own. As I meantioned, " Since KI team went to school for gaming, I trust their judgement and reasons." for keeping the games balanced and fair. The answer to your question is: What i think is balanced to what KI believes. It doesn't matter to me one why or another. It's a game I didn't create
What's unbalanced and unfair or not is widely opinionated from one person to the next. Any game played can be unfair and/or unbalanced or not to those who look for their own standards and expectations. I don't take notes and legislate myself to judge a game I play and don't own. As I meantioned, " Since KI team went to school for gaming, I trust their judgement and reasons." for keeping the games balanced and fair. The answer to your question is: What i think is balanced to what KI believes. It doesn't matter to me one why or another. It's a game I didn't create
I think part of the reason it is so 'widely opinionated from one person to the next' is because people frequently want 'equality of outcome', rather than 'equality of opportunity'.
If there is equality of outcome there is no reason to bother, no reason to put in time or effort, and no sense of achievement since we all get the same no matter what.
However, making sure there is a reasonable equality of opportunity is important in making sure there is an overall sense of fairness and balance.
While there will never be true equality*, having a heavy flow of TC and maintaining wide availability allows an acceptable equality of opportunity. However, cutting off the supply and making it exclusive/precious will be a huge hit against new and lower level players...it will irritate the rest of us, but we have the resources and advantage already to adapt quickly while grumbling about it.
Making it widely available but restricted in use will also encourage and nurture an even playing field...though at this stage, having had free use of it so long, it might be very unpopular. It would be a gamble between whether those who are used to being able to use it would actually quit over it or just consider quitting, then adapt. The value of newer players should not be underestimated, they are equally important in providing tomorrow's bread and butter!
I admit, I don't know what KI's thoughts are or the direction they're wanting to go in or even the things they are considering imbalanced that need to be balanced...but I do think equality of outcome will kill off any game, while equality of opportunity leads to adaptation on all sides because irritations are overcome by logic and enabling new players to get a foot in will keep the game alive.
I'd like to hear what KI are considering issues, what they think could/should be adapted or changed, and what their general overall goal is. I think this would help considerably when specifying possible changes to help achieve the same objectives.
*there will never be 'true equality' as people have played more/less years, have more/less time to play, have more/less crowns available, have more/less friends and allies, have more/less capability for research etc etc...
I think part of the reason it is so 'widely opinionated from one person to the next' is because people frequently want 'equality of outcome', rather than 'equality of opportunity'.
If there is equality of outcome there is no reason to bother, no reason to put in time or effort, and no sense of achievement since we all get the same no matter what.
However, making sure there is a reasonable equality of opportunity is important in making sure there is an overall sense of fairness and balance.
While there will never be true equality*, having a heavy flow of TC and maintaining wide availability allows an acceptable equality of opportunity. However, cutting off the supply and making it exclusive/precious will be a huge hit against new and lower level players...it will irritate the rest of us, but we have the resources and advantage already to adapt quickly while grumbling about it.
Making it widely available but restricted in use will also encourage and nurture an even playing field...though at this stage, having had free use of it so long, it might be very unpopular. It would be a gamble between whether those who are used to being able to use it would actually quit over it or just consider quitting, then adapt. The value of newer players should not be underestimated, they are equally important in providing tomorrow's bread and butter!
I admit, I don't know what KI's thoughts are or the direction they're wanting to go in or even the things they are considering imbalanced that need to be balanced...but I do think equality of outcome will kill off any game, while equality of opportunity leads to adaptation on all sides because irritations are overcome by logic and enabling new players to get a foot in will keep the game alive.
I'd like to hear what KI are considering issues, what they think could/should be adapted or changed, and what their general overall goal is. I think this would help considerably when specifying possible changes to help achieve the same objectives.
*there will never be 'true equality' as people have played more/less years, have more/less time to play, have more/less crowns available, have more/less friends and allies, have more/less capability for research etc etc...
Some very good points on the Equality of Opportunity vs Equality of Outcome!
And you can only battle wizards within your rank 10-20, 20-30, 30-40... etc.
Steven Ghoststalker 130
Hey there you go. That's an idea. The only complaint will remain is when someone get's beatin and defeated by a spell, then is: "I got defeated by that spell. I don't like that. It's shouldn't be allowed in PVP or lets nerf it.
Hey there you go. That's an idea. The only complaint will remain is when someone get's beatin and defeated by a spell, then is: "I got defeated by that spell. I don't like that. It's shouldn't be allowed in PVP or lets nerf it.
Is this how you pvp? I think many complaints about specific spells in PvP are valid, not everyone just whines about losing. Just as everyone in PvE does not want every world nerfed to the ground so they mindless spam whatever without repercussions.
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