For months on end in the past, I have read these message boards, taken in others words, researched tirelessly, and finally I think I'm ready to tell my philosophy. The 2nd Arc to Wizard101 has had a lot of negative feed back for the bast 3 years since Celestia's release. Many stated that the jump was very big and that now the worlds are leaping. Morganthe's Arc is hard to follow and most of you young Wizards have given up on her. Some are hitting at Hardcore players and blaming them for there request to make the game way more challenging; nearly "ruining" the game. This all has to stop.
Here's the down low for the 2nd Arc. This arc was created to bring back teen players between 14-17 as the 1st arc did not challenge them enough and actually stirred them away. We would've actually only seen a majority of 13- and 30+ probably. I know this because Celestia and Pirate101 were both put into production around the same time and Pirate101 is supposed to target this age group primarily (this does NOT stop any parents, adults, grandparents etc. from playing. And those of you who want diversity and randomness please try out the Free Trial an give the game a chance before you say "Nope, not gonna waste time and money"). The 2nd Arc isn't for hardcore players at all. They may enjoy it more because of the new challenge but, honestly, I have heard the teens and preteens of this game enjoy this Arc more than anyone else of the entire community (but I'm certain there are a few adults who do find the challenge ok).
Some people are worried that Kingsisle is going to continue challenges like this. Now, yes I can see these kinds of things happening PRIMARILY in the 2nd Arc pretty much. KI has won the favor of casual players in the 1st Arc. For teens, like myself, the 2nd Arc provides the challenge we like. I love to test myself on whether I can beat bosses or tough mobs alone. Sometimes it works first go, others, I just need to work on my strategy. The 2nd Arc stacked up it's books on top the 1st Arc's so as we progress, we do see this shift, toward our level 100 as one villian did not stay continuosly toward the end like it does in Pirate101.
I know KI will come out with a 3nd Arc to this game. Before that though I wanna see some side worlds like with the end of the 1st (any chance on Candy World or Gobblerton you thing?) And instead of stacking the 3nd Arc of the game on top of the 1st and 2nd, it should be placed on the side to contect these 2 arcs and still have full 5 worlds. This I think would kinda help give a balance to what everyone wants (Hey! To please everyone is hard and almost slim to none on this range of people). Currently though there is something for everyone. I would like Wizard101 to just go a year with only side worlds and we work the kinks later. They do have to do a balance between fixing this, expansions, adding new stuff (this current update), and going back to old stuff.
I don't think many of us disagree with what you are saying. It's the game shift strategy that we don't agree with. If a potential rpg player (new customer) is looking to play a game with increased challenges they aren't going to play wizard101 for 50+ hours just to get to Celestia.
What the 2nd arc worlds do offer is increased challenges for existing players who started off a bit younger (2 or 3 years ago) and are now looking for additional game play with more challenges. The 2nd arc definitely satisfies that crowd.
If KI wanted to attract new players with a game that has increased challenges they should have created side world's or parallel or alternate story paths.
Furthermore, the 2nd arc world's have a strong focus on repetition. The first arc has this too but it's not as noticeable because it's easier and battles are much shorter. But the 2nd arc... It's dominated with did-not-collect quests. Story is lacking, the perceived length of worlds is dragged out with having to to defeat the same enemies over and over. There is no attempt to disguise this.
With the additional challenges of the 2nd arc world they did not increase the depth of story or NPCs. If anything its worse than 1st arc stories. (avalon got a bit better, but then story nose dives in azteca). But if you are increasing challenges for a more mature audience... Shouldn't stories and npc's follow suit?
Another issue with the 2nd arc world's (particularly avalon and azteca)... many younger players can't effectively play. The strategy involved is too tough for them. No big issue here except if you are wanting to play with family and friends. It leaves people behind.
I think you missed the point on all of those posts. Have you even been to Azteca?
Firstly, I am an adult~ over 18, under 30. I have a job, a social life, and various offline commitments, meaning that I don't have time to spend 6 hours in a dungeon, collecting one item, or training a pet to mega on the off-chance it gets decent talents. Azteca is a huge time commitment, and the amount of hours required to complete it is time that most people between the ages of 5 and 65 do not have.
I did not have an exceptionally-difficult time in Azteca. My balance wizard had good friends to get her through the rough patches, and my necromancer made it all the way to Twin Giants practically by himself; as I mentioned, it becomes an issue of time. Azteca is a lot of grinding, for very little reward~ it was designed for those players who can complete a world in 2-3 days, and requires that you use a PvP mindset in PvE combat. It requires you to have perfect gear, a perfect pet, friends or henchmen, and the crowns to obtain them. These things are not always available to casual players, which makes that already-frustrating experience a thousand times worse.
Whether they know it or not, hardcore gamers dictate what KI does to the rest of us. What they don't realize is that, while they can make their own challenges (bad or no gear, no healing pet, etc.), the game cannot be made easier for those casual players who are struggling. And, while I don't struggle per se, the last thing I want when I get home from work at 7am is more work.
-von
90 bal & death 74 storm 54 life 31 myth & ice 22 fire
I think you missed the point on all of those posts. Have you even been to Azteca?
Firstly, I am an adult~ over 18, under 30. I have a job, a social life, and various offline commitments, meaning that I don't have time to spend 6 hours in a dungeon, collecting one item, or training a pet to mega on the off-chance it gets decent talents. Azteca is a huge time commitment, and the amount of hours required to complete it is time that most people between the ages of 5 and 65 do not have.
I did not have an exceptionally-difficult time in Azteca. My balance wizard had good friends to get her through the rough patches, and my necromancer made it all the way to Twin Giants practically by himself; as I mentioned, it becomes an issue of time. Azteca is a lot of grinding, for very little reward~ it was designed for those players who can complete a world in 2-3 days, and requires that you use a PvP mindset in PvE combat. It requires you to have perfect gear, a perfect pet, friends or henchmen, and the crowns to obtain them. These things are not always available to casual players, which makes that already-frustrating experience a thousand times worse.
Whether they know it or not, hardcore gamers dictate what KI does to the rest of us. What they don't realize is that, while they can make their own challenges (bad or no gear, no healing pet, etc.), the game cannot be made easier for those casual players who are struggling. And, while I don't struggle per se, the last thing I want when I get home from work at 7am is more work.
-von
90 bal & death 74 storm 54 life 31 myth & ice 22 fire
Have you have been to Azteca? Yes, I am currently working with my Level 89 Death Wizard in Alto Alto. I have seen the different workings in questing and I honestly don't mind it too much. I am still as teen~ above 13, below 17. Unlike you, I don't have a job, a major social life, etc. So my weekends are pretty much open as long as I don't have a major assignment to complete. From what you are telling me, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I think you, and many other casual players, are still playing in the same style as Arc 1. You are playing through it continuously like the old days. It was fine back then because the challenge was set up to be pretty easy. And you know it's fine if you want to play similar to that, but what that does is make these higher level worlds feel grinding and very hard. And I also feel like many players are feeling like there is a specific time frame you must complete things by. But why?
For me, I have come accustom to the new set up of Azteca's quest. Fight Mobs-fight Boss, Fight Mobs-Fight Boss. Talk to someone, find something. Repeat. I can't play 15+ hours like that in a day like a true hardcore player could. And I simply won't in any of these worlds. Nothing to it. Instead I take my time and do whatever I feel up to. I will fight the mobs and fight a boss and that will be all I'm up for most times. I take it all in very small increments. Then I may give myself days or weeks on end before I get back into it. I don't care if it will take me 5 months to finish Azteca, this is a style I enjoy doing. I feel when I take my time and just do one long boss battle at a time instead of in one day, 1.) I've accomplished I can beat many of these guys solo and 2.) These grinds many casual players speak of I find unnoticable.
I don't train up a pet to mega or try hours on end just to get a pet with "good stats." Depends on your preference. Throughout Azteca I have used the same Scarecrow Pet I got in Wintertusk. All he has is a death accuracy and damage increase, +108 Max Health, and +88 mana. That's all I've ever needed from my pets since Day 1 and I ask for no more. It is up to you however if that's something you really really want to do.
Now I don't think it's fair to have some players be forced to make they're on challenges. What if they're paying for that but can't handle things like WoW? I do believe they're still needs to be a challenge somewhere in the game. I think the 1st arc gave the easiness to casual players and the challenge some want is in 2nd. I think that's ok. I don't believe KI is going to continue this after the 2nd arc. Where can they go when Mobs and Bosses will start off with 7 pips? Adding more casual side arcs (Wysteria and Crab Alley) will help but that will take time and you must be willing to wait on that.
For you, I wouldn't add more strife to you're already busy life. Might I reccomend some skullcap tea? It helps relax a stressed person. Take things slower if that helps at all lol
I don't think many of us disagree with what you are saying. It's the game shift strategy that we don't agree with. If a potential rpg player (new customer) is looking to play a game with increased challenges they aren't going to play wizard101 for 50+ hours just to get to Celestia.
What the 2nd arc worlds do offer is increased challenges for existing players who started off a bit younger (2 or 3 years ago) and are now looking for additional game play with more challenges. The 2nd arc definitely satisfies that crowd.
If KI wanted to attract new players with a game that has increased challenges they should have created side world's or parallel or alternate story paths.
Furthermore, the 2nd arc world's have a strong focus on repetition. The first arc has this too but it's not as noticeable because it's easier and battles are much shorter. But the 2nd arc... It's dominated with did-not-collect quests. Story is lacking, the perceived length of worlds is dragged out with having to to defeat the same enemies over and over. There is no attempt to disguise this.
With the additional challenges of the 2nd arc world they did not increase the depth of story or NPCs. If anything its worse than 1st arc stories. (avalon got a bit better, but then story nose dives in azteca). But if you are increasing challenges for a more mature audience... Shouldn't stories and npc's follow suit?
Another issue with the 2nd arc world's (particularly avalon and azteca)... many younger players can't effectively play. The strategy involved is too tough for them. No big issue here except if you are wanting to play with family and friends. It leaves people behind.
They don't have to play 50+ hours just to reach Celestia onward. They don't need to do that all in one day. Where did this "gotta-do-it-now" mindset come from? Grizzlehiem gets harder and harder as you make you're way to Dragonspyre. I've seen that "Jotun Impossible!" post and so it could show that in other areas there is some challenge for you. (And then just for the 1st Arc, challenge looking players can make there own challenge with below level gear. That adds there own excitement for the time being and stop and 2nd arc). Kingsisle has made a side worlds with such a challenges. Wintertusk came up with these challenges and there is a commercial/advertisement for this world. It no longer appears on TV but for a time it was here. Parallel stories that have the game harder I feel is something that should have happened during early development of Wizard101. If it happened now, I feel like that's similar to Everquest's split realm thing. I feel like that seperates the game and some Players said that's what killed Everquest. That isn't something I look forward to.
I'm not sure why the repetition was done. I think it's still following quest development as the first arc. Maybe to take a longer time so players stay on longer. I don't know, I'm afraid. For whatever the reason ease, I don't know how they could even mask it. Maybe make the story stronger and more apparent to Wizards (I know it is for me), but I honestly just don't know. At any rate, at the level we are, there may be no good way.
Maybe a problem with the second arc is it stacked it's books on top of the 1st Arc. This created a difference in story and challenge as instead of leading off of level 1 it came off at level 50. Who knows unless they release an article for the reasons of the second arc?
What do you mean by "With the additional challenges of the 2nd arc world they did not increase the depth of story or NPCs." If you mean it didn't answer many questions in the first arc, you're right. The 2nd arc is a completely different story. Anything about say our teachers was answered somewhat along the way (Halston's from Marleybone, Moolinda Mooshu, Cyrus from Dragonspyre, and Lydia hales from Candy World. We're unclear on Falmea). We don't know about the Eye of History, a major question, and they've yet to do a bigger depth in them. I do hope they do. (of course this is all base on if this is what you were talking about).
The casuality for kids and some older is said to end at MooShu-Dragonspyre. I have not anticipated a majority of them to make it past these worlds. Most times I think they just drop off and find something else. If they choose to continue to play, I think it helps expand getting family and friends better envolved when they need the help. I help all the time. Sometimes it become distracting other times it helps me break from a challenge. A better alternative is to expand the challenge in the first arc with more side arcs.
I don't think many of us disagree with what you are saying. It's the game shift strategy that we don't agree with. If a potential rpg player (new customer) is looking to play a game with increased challenges they aren't going to play wizard101 for 50+ hours just to get to Celestia.
What the 2nd arc worlds do offer is increased challenges for existing players who started off a bit younger (2 or 3 years ago) and are now looking for additional game play with more challenges. The 2nd arc definitely satisfies that crowd.
If KI wanted to attract new players with a game that has increased challenges they should have created side world's or parallel or alternate story paths.
Furthermore, the 2nd arc world's have a strong focus on repetition. The first arc has this too but it's not as noticeable because it's easier and battles are much shorter. But the 2nd arc... It's dominated with did-not-collect quests. Story is lacking, the perceived length of worlds is dragged out with having to to defeat the same enemies over and over. There is no attempt to disguise this.
With the additional challenges of the 2nd arc world they did not increase the depth of story or NPCs. If anything its worse than 1st arc stories. (avalon got a bit better, but then story nose dives in azteca). But if you are increasing challenges for a more mature audience... Shouldn't stories and npc's follow suit?
Another issue with the 2nd arc world's (particularly avalon and azteca)... many younger players can't effectively play. The strategy involved is too tough for them. No big issue here except if you are wanting to play with family and friends. It leaves people behind.
Sorry there was one point I didn't make in my other post. You said that it's the game shift that some don't agree with. This was inevitable problem from the start. Even if things had not gone the way they have, we still would have come to process of how to leave off from lvl 50 with a new challenge as well as a new enemy since Malistaire's defeat. Here's a piece to an article Professor Greyrose posted during Celestia's release about J. Todd Coleman answering the removal of tradeable enchants. This part I found helpful:
Please understand that we went to great lengths to craft and balance the difficulty and "fun factor" of our game. We spent thousands of hours pouring over spreadsheets, implementing, testing, and then repeating that process until we got it right. We planned for players to have "easy" fights and "hard" fights. We planned on solo areas, and areas where we wanted them to ask other players for assistance, fostering social connections. As part of this process -- and to make each class feel special -- we created a handful of custom, unique spell that were restricted to each class. We wanted each player to feel like they could do something that other players could not. Each class was engineered to have areas of strength and weakness, so that the style of game play (and strategy) would different from one player to the next. We wanted to foster a sense of identity, to make the game interesting (and different) based on the path that the player chose to follow, and (of course) to make the game balanced across 300+ hours of gameplay.
This kinda shows some reasoning for why things were done to the difficulty. Apparently better establish social bonding in this game. I don't think this happened to well and many misinterpret it. Not sure if this really helps but I found it important to bring out.
Anyway, one way Kingsisle can help bring causality, is go back to the worlds and create one continuous difficulty, particularly in the pips. While mobs and bosses got to learn new spells and gained more health like us, they still kept one pip the whole way. With the second arc, Kingsisle wants to lead to appoint were mobs and bosses will start off with 7 Power Pips. This is cool and all, but I think for other people one continuous use of power would be nice instead of Dragonspyre having 1 pip mobs then 2-3 in Celestia, then 3-4, then 4-5, then 5-6 in Azteca and finally 6-7 in the last world. Bosses ended up have 4 pips in Celestia then gained one more till Azteca's 7 pip starters. While this is managable, I think they can tone it down a bit to give a better gradual feel (otherwise the health and spells known to Mobs is on point). Instead, the whole (or half) of the 2nd Arc should start off with a continuos 2 PIPS (not power pips as Dragonspyre had few mobs with power pips). The power pip chance can increase continually so mobs can still get them. I can see this may have been done so mobs can still use rank 8-10 spells.
"This arc was created to bring back teen players between 14-17 as the 1st arc did not challenge them enough and actually stirred them away"
Let me repeat. A potential new customer in the age group 14-17 looking for greater RPG challenges is unlikely to play through 50+ hours of a game they don't fully enjoy in the hopes that there will be increased enjoyment later on. They will simply quit well before Marleybone and start playing something else they prefer. There is huge variety of online rpg games available.
The first arc worlds are not aimed at an audience looking for fast-paced, strongly strategic, or sexy game play. People looking for this will play something else.
Adding on worlds with new or different play-styles at the end of an existing linear-play game isn't going to change this.
i just really dont think we would be having any of these problems if ki would update our gear. also ki cant do much to help us with pvp in the way so pve and pvp need to be separated or ki just needs to nerf stuff in pvp ONLY. its quite a simple solution really and like many have said if the current stuff you have makes the game to easy equip lower level stuff. also were not gaining the oppropiate amount of strength as we progress through the worlds to match the mobs growth of strength, im honestly worried that normal mobs will have a 75% critical raiting in the next world if not a new tri pip while we get more gear with horrible only effective against 2 schools stats. there is a certain breaking point for even people with a mind set like you and it may not be the next world but i would put my money on the next world after that when probally all mobs and bosses are immune to critical and yet can critical 90% of the time. while i hope ki doesnt take it to that extreme if they make the next world twice as hard as they did azteca(azteca was twice as hard as avalon as avalon i trully enjoyed) then we would almost certaintly be heading in that direction.
"This arc was created to bring back teen players between 14-17 as the 1st arc did not challenge them enough and actually stirred them away"
Let me repeat. A potential new customer in the age group 14-17 looking for greater RPG challenges is unlikely to play through 50+ hours of a game they don't fully enjoy in the hopes that there will be increased enjoyment later on. They will simply quit well before Marleybone and start playing something else they prefer. There is huge variety of online rpg games available.
The first arc worlds are not aimed at an audience looking for fast-paced, strongly strategic, or sexy game play. People looking for this will play something else.
Adding on worlds with new or different play-styles at the end of an existing linear-play game isn't going to change this.
Ok, I will agree with you on that. As I think about it, my opening statement was incorrect (that whole target the 14-17 age group is more of Pirate101's foundation. I just assumed that since Celestia and Pirate101 were put into production at around the same time.) It is possible that the challenges presented at Celestia onward were to:
A.) Incorporate new functions leading off of Level 50. As I said, instead of doing another story all the way at level 1, they decided to leave off of Level 50. With that higher level, you have the potential to add in any play styles such as the Critcal, Block, Amor Pierce, and Multi-Pip starting enemies. However, because this is a new story, it doesn't leave off of the 1st Arc as a continuation (could one do that with the major enemy defeated?), and felt, to me, more like two lines being put together.
B.) Better create social bondings. Again when I placed that paragrah in from J. Todd Coleman, during the time of Celestia's release when it was stated, he stated that aftering retesting, they wanted the game to have soloable areas (which would imply that they are to the majority "easy" -not extremely hard that you need a friend but not extremely easy that you don't have to think on things period.) I have noticed a greater increase in players asking for assistance in the higher worlds, mostly Dragonspyre+. Whether or not this is a major problem, it's just there. I think that by doing this, it does foster those player relationships, Kingsisle was trying to create in the first place. I'm in Azteca and I can solo many parts but I do find it worthwhile to have one friend by my side. It's like how they say food tastes better when you eat with friends. This was always apparent since 1st Arc (teamwork however is not always called for). Or, in turn, I'm helping friends in worlds Zafaria down. Either way the challenges in my eyes can add to a family experience. Most times if everyone is playing a role in the battle. I can't gaurantee everyone would see this (and from most posts, they don't), but this was the intent as far as I'm willing to look at it.
Have you have been to Azteca? Yes, I am currently working with my Level 89 Death Wizard in Alto Alto. I have seen the different workings in questing and I honestly don't mind it too much. I am still as teen~ above 13, below 17. Unlike you, I don't have a job, a major social life, etc. So my weekends are pretty much open as long as I don't have a major assignment to complete. From what you are telling me, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I think you, and many other casual players, are still playing in the same style as Arc 1. You are playing through it continuously like the old days. It was fine back then because the challenge was set up to be pretty easy. And you know it's fine if you want to play similar to that, but what that does is make these higher level worlds feel grinding and very hard. And I also feel like many players are feeling like there is a specific time frame you must complete things by. But why?
For me, I have come accustom to the new set up of Azteca's quest. Fight Mobs-fight Boss, Fight Mobs-Fight Boss. Talk to someone, find something. Repeat. I can't play 15+ hours like that in a day like a true hardcore player could. And I simply won't in any of these worlds. Nothing to it. Instead I take my time and do whatever I feel up to. I will fight the mobs and fight a boss and that will be all I'm up for most times. I take it all in very small increments. Then I may give myself days or weeks on end before I get back into it. I don't care if it will take me 5 months to finish Azteca, this is a style I enjoy doing. I feel when I take my time and just do one long boss battle at a time instead of in one day, 1.) I've accomplished I can beat many of these guys solo and 2.) These grinds many casual players speak of I find unnoticable.
I don't train up a pet to mega or try hours on end just to get a pet with "good stats." Depends on your preference. Throughout Azteca I have used the same Scarecrow Pet I got in Wintertusk. All he has is a death accuracy and damage increase, +108 Max Health, and +88 mana. That's all I've ever needed from my pets since Day 1 and I ask for no more. It is up to you however if that's something you really really want to do.
Now I don't think it's fair to have some players be forced to make they're on challenges. What if they're paying for that but can't handle things like WoW? I do believe they're still needs to be a challenge somewhere in the game. I think the 1st arc gave the easiness to casual players and the challenge some want is in 2nd. I think that's ok. I don't believe KI is going to continue this after the 2nd arc. Where can they go when Mobs and Bosses will start off with 7 pips? Adding more casual side arcs (Wysteria and Crab Alley) will help but that will take time and you must be willing to wait on that.
For you, I wouldn't add more strife to you're already busy life. Might I reccomend some skullcap tea? It helps relax a stressed person. Take things slower if that helps at all lol
No, I'm not playing in the same style as the first arc; from a gaming perspective, I and my strategies have evolved a lot since I started playing 2 years ago. But I prefer arc 1, for several reasons:
1) the plot was coherent and easy to follow; with the Morganthe arc, KI has left far too much to imagination.
not that there's anything wrong with open-ended plot lines, but this is too much of a good thing.
2) enemies have advanced so much, yet players have not.
we're still starting with the same 4 pips we did at level 45; crafted gear is mediocre at best, and the last decent gear upgrade we got was waterworks, 30 levels ago. by contrast, enemies (even mobs) start with 14 pips, 6000 health, and can chain-stun us to death from the get-go; they all have much higher critical and block ratings than players, are stun-resistant, and all wear mastery amulets.
3) remember that this game is marketed to casual players and families; how many younger players, or their parents/guardians, actually make it to the second arc? since menu chat doesn't allow us text chatters to let someone know when a boss cheats, we can't strategize with a menu chatter, so the number can't be that high.
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My full-time job (and I work in sales, which is one of the most stressful jobs out there) is actually less stressful than a boss fight in Azteca. In fact, I'm so sick of Azteca that, come August, I may just dump both subs and leave the game permanently. I don't have time for a second full-time job, least of all one that I'm not being paid to do.
When you are an adult, with a job and social commitments, perhaps a family of your own, you will understand why every second counts.
?) And instead of stacking the 3nd Arc of the game on top of the 1st and 2nd, it should be placed on the side to contect these 2 arcs and still have full 5 worlds. This I think would kinda help give a balance to what everyone wants (Hey! To please everyone is hard and almost slim to none on this range of people
). Currently though there is something for everyone. I would like Wizard101 to just go a year with only side worlds and we work the kinks later. They do have to do a balance between fixing this, expansions, adding new stuff (this current update), and going back to old stuff. 
Grizzlehiem gets harder and harder as you make you're way to Dragonspyre. I've seen that "Jotun Impossible!" post and so it could show that in other areas there is some challenge for you. (And then just for the 1st Arc, challenge looking players can make there own challenge with below level gear. That adds there own excitement for the time being and stop and 2nd arc). 