a hundred points difference, Treasure cards are better than the original spells.
Now, about how we shouldn't PvP at all, why not make the game fun for everyone huh, its not a bad idea at all. Some people think its unfair a lvl 1 warlord, with 49% uni resist, and a 35% in all damage. doing 8000 damage with efreet. That is a little extreme. True some people like TC cards and available to everyone, but everyone doesn't like playing people who doesn't know the spell. They want to face with the spells they learned through dedication of the studies they did with there teachers. They want there own SKILL that they learned, the spells they mastered, not one time use spells. Imo it would help everyone out, so this isn't a waste full comment. now the trolls can come out now
"Ice is delicate and beautiful, but it can be tough and deadly" Angel lvl 85
Well technically they can be a weaker version since they can not be enchanted with sun spells.
For everyone who has said, "Treasure cards should be banned. High level gear should be updated. New systems need to be implemented because I can't beat treasure cards. Treasure cards are unfair." please, think about it from the treasure card user's perspective. Imagine you're a level 50 battling a level 80 with 300 critical and 70% damage. You have maybe 100 block, 50-54 resist, slight healing boost, and maybe 50 damage. Please tell me; no matter what school you are, how are you supposed to fit everything you need in your main deck? Most schools, at level 50, do not get extremely high powered attacks that are needed to defeat players similar to the one in this example. They have much better stats than you. Although, in this example, I only put their damage stats, they will probably have 2-4 times your health, somewhat less resist than you, and much better healing boost. They will have access to more treasure cards and many more normal spells. They can quickly stack up tons of damage, so you, as a level 50 warlord, will need to debuff or shield often. Without treasure cards, level 50 warlords would be stuck using low pip attacks that would hardly put a dent in their opponent's health, while their opponent would be using critical attacks with more damage boost, and more powerful base damage to begin with. The only advantage the level 50 warlord has is some resist and "skill," which everyone seems to think is a much larger factor in pvp than level. Please tell me; how is it fair for a level 50 to be battling someone with many more advantages than them? That's like asking a student to score higher on a test than another student that is several years ahead of them in school. It can happen, but won't happen consistently, and the younger student won't have much of a chance. It's not so much about how good the lower is, just about how much of an advantage the higher level, or in the student example, how much extra learning, the person with the advantage has.
How does implementing the Classic PvP system affect this in any way? All that does is give you the OPTION to choose a match that allows TC and a match that doesn't. And lol I know I'VE been looking at things from a TC users perspective, non-TC users, PvPers in general, and those who don't care about PvP at all. I'm on the fence when it comes to TC usage in PvP, though I will support an idea, such as implementing Classic PvP in Ranked PvP, if I feel it will benefit the general population. (Btw I'm not suggesting to implement the system because I can't beat TC, I'm suggesting it because everyone has their own way of playing. Some people love using TC, others prefer to save them for PvE or just put their gold towards things they deem more important)
Well the way the Ranking system is devised is based on your Rank and Level, so if you're a level 50 Warlord you're going to end up fighting fellow wizards that are a lot higher level than you. Why? Because the system sees you as an experienced PvPer, for being a Warlord at mid level cap, and a Promethean Private is seen as someone with little experience, even though they're a lot stronger than you. That is why the system sees it as 'fair' (though I do agreed that the level match ups are ridiculous sometimes)
I've noticed a lot of the complaints in PvP in general are from lower level PvPers, which is a little ridiculous in my opinion. If you're , like your example, a level 50 Warlord and are facing Prometheans and TC can't help you then it would stand to reason (and common sense) that maybe you should work on leveling to a higher level so you have the better gear and health to stand a better chance. When lower level PvPers complain about having to face the higher levels it makes us higher levels, who worked hard to get to our levels, feel as if we're hated in PvP to put it lightly. Anyways, simply put: If you're struggling at a lower level then LEVEL UP. The best levels to PvP are either at the beginning low levels, or near the level cap. Being in the middle makes it a lot more difficult because you could end up fighting anyone at any level, whereas being a Promethean means you'll either fight people your level and below.
R.I.P. Morgrim, Lvl. 85
And why shouldn't anyone be able to pvp at any lvl they would like without unfair matching? You and others' efforts to try and remove tc from pvp or put limits on when to use them will only CAUSE MORE OF A PROBLEM IN PVP if this idea succeeds. This situation in which Aaron explained is a good example of a big problem in pvp. This whole nonsense about tc being unfair in pvp is a problem you try to make up. It's not a problem because EVERYONE can use tc. I hope you can actually understand what the REAL problem in pvp is now.
Are we really on the subject about Treasure Cards again? Honestly people Treasure Cards are part of the game the have been here for quite a while so why is this a problem all of a sudden now? If you don't like Treasure cards in pvp then just don't pvp at all, useless comments like these ( If you can even call these real comments) are already ruining the game as it is. So spare us the pointless stuff like this. Please and thank you.
bro, i absolutely agree with you. whenever i defeat someone, usually lower rank than me, always complain and make up excuses like "tc noobs." some people who called me that even use tc themselves for those who don't use tc in pvp, like Duncan had said, just quit pvp or do the classical tourneys without tc. don't complain on the message board. thanks -Kenneth Dragon PvP Warlord
We never said to ban tc, where is that coming from, we want a option like classic tourney. Where in that does it say Ban the tc, there lame, Grab the card burners? we didn't We just want to end the feud for once and for all, this will keep the TC complainers down and the Feud over TC will be over. Why because there will be no reason for anyone to complain about tc anymore.
Yes, I know about the sun enchantments, but then there are some people lvl 50 and below who will not have the enchantment, so the responses is valid and not valid all in one. It depends on the sun enchantment they have, yes I use sun enchantments I know how they work. but a hundred points different you need to be lvl 56 and have giant to beat that difference.
I use tc cards, but I also want fights where I only use what I know, What I studied and mastered. I don't think its a bad Idea to implement this feature in Ranked PvP.
Summary: WE DONT WANT TO BAN TC ( not yelling just making it bigger to read). TC cards lack able to use sun enchantments on it, but its stronger than the first 2 sun enchantments. I am for this idea
" Ice is delicate and beautiful, but can be fierce and deadly"
I never said using your own spells shows a lack of skill. I never TC attack cards personally because they are too weak. Saying that TC should not be allowed or that using TC shows lack of skill are completely wrong. NOT using TC does show a lack of intelligence, I never said the TC had to be attacks. You must have read a completely different post than mine. Learn to read please.
Oh you really want to tell me to learn to read? I'll brush that one off. I take that as an insult, since I'm an author by trade (and before you try bringing the hammer down on that let me tell you this: ALL the funds from my books go to charities, and I'm beyond gifted so don't you dare tell me to learn how to read.) And you still fail to make any sense, so learn how to WRITE. I can harp on you all day about your grammar and missing words in your sentences, but you don't see me insulting you that way now do you.
Again: Not using TC doesn't prove whether you're intelligent or not. Quite frankly the only one being unintelligent here is you. I have NEVER relied on a TC to get me through this game, because my INGELLIGENCE surpasses the average gamer. Care to try again.
You are trying to use a back-doory psychological trick to make it appear that I addressed the wrong individual when you are just too arrogant to admit your mistakes. And you never said the TC DIDN'T have to be attacks either, since we're playing the two-man front here.
Before you try to start an argument you better choose your words carefully and shield yourself from every angle. Because your case has too many loopholes to cover.
I suggest you quit the TC debate because that's not what I'm here discuss. If you single-minded TC 'guardians' want to debate about TC usage than make your own thread. This here is about implementing options into PvP to eliminate the TC problem, not eliminate TC in PvP all together. So again: learn how to read. You and many others have taken this thread way out of context.
R.I.P. Morgrim, Lvl. 85
P.S.: Before you try saying 'I didn't say _______ directly' I'll give you the same speel I gave Mr. Grimwater: Look for underlying meanings and metaphorical connections. You may not have said anything about my profession directly, but on and underlying level you hit a nerve.
Ok you TC loving single-minded PvPers listen up and listen up GOOD. This thread has NOTHING to do with eliminating TC or restricting what TC can be used in PvP, so quit trying to hijack this thread! This thread is about whether or not a system should be implemented to allow PvPers to choose what style of play they would like to participate in. NOT ABOUT TC. You're either for or against this idea, there is no need to argue about 'TC this' and 'TC that'. May I remind you this game is more PvE oriented than PvP, considering how it was originally created to teach kids pop culture and literature references as well as mathematical skills. With that said, this system was originally thought up to benefit not only you older gamers but the younger gamers as well.
The younger gamers shouldn't be limited to just Practice matches because of their age and play styles. And before you try saying they shouldn't be in Ranked PvP if they can't handle it let me remind you: this is a FAMILY friendly game meaning all players of all ages are entitled to anything and everything YOU are entitled to in this game. I have a younger sister who's still trying to learn PvP tactics, but she doesn't like the Practice Arena because there's no solid reward value in it for her. She prefers Ranked because there's more at stake, however she also finds it extremely unfair and demoralizing when matches only last long enough for her to get a wand spell off. But, those of you caught up in the PvP-Only sector won't see this nor would you understand. DiamondDust and I are trying to help EVERYONE at ALL ages, not just you single-minded TC lovers. Like I keep saying: I USE TC TOO. They may just be healing TC, but they're TC nonetheless. But you don't see me on here saying 'Ban TC', 'Keep TC', 'TC this', 'TC that'. No. My first post was about implementing the system, then somewhere down the line this entire thread got twisted into a completely different subject.
I never said using your own spells shows a lack of skill. I never TC attack cards personally because they are too weak. Saying that TC should not be allowed or that using TC shows lack of skill are completely wrong. NOT using TC does show a lack of intelligence, I never said the TC had to be attacks. You must have read a completely different post than mine. Learn to read please.
Btw I didn't specifically use 'attack' TC only. Beguile is a support spell, not an attack. It doesn't deal damage.
And why shouldn't anyone be able to pvp at any lvl they would like without unfair matching? You and others' efforts to try and remove tc from pvp or put limits on when to use them will only CAUSE MORE OF A PROBLEM IN PVP if this idea succeeds. This situation in which Aaron explained is a good example of a big problem in pvp. This whole nonsense about tc being unfair in pvp is a problem you try to make up. It's not a problem because EVERYONE can use tc. I hope you can actually understand what the REAL problem in pvp is now.
You are like all the others, trying to twist words. Read what I posted on here about Lvl. 1-10 being matched together, then 11-20, 21-30, etc. You are so blind here it's hilarious. Because I'm not trying to remove TC, I'm trying to think of a compromise between the PvPers like you and PvPers like me. Now if you want me to get into a debate about removing TC I'll gladly create a thread for you. You're single-minded, try looking at it from other's points of view for once besides your own.
The real problem in PvP is PvP itself thank you. PvP alone has ruined wonderful ideas Kingsisle originally implemented into the game, but now those ideas have been wasted because 'You and other's efforts' to defend nothing but PvP have essentially started to ruin certain aspects of the game.
Simplify/Elucidate: Sun enchants that reduced the number of pips required to cast a spell. Due to PvP complaints these spells have been removed and only the TC forms are available (which are only rare drops in Celestia, aside from one individual quest that gives 2 as a reward)
2 Power Pip Wands: Wands that gave 2 power pips instead of 1 at the beginning of a battle. Due to PvP complaints these wonderful wands that would of made many bosses players now complain as 'hard' easier are now removed from the game.
Hope you're happy. Guess this game is entirely PvP oriented.
bro, i absolutely agree with you. whenever i defeat someone, usually lower rank than me, always complain and make up excuses like "tc noobs." some people who called me that even use tc themselves for those who don't use tc in pvp, like Duncan had said, just quit pvp or do the classical tourneys without tc. don't complain on the message board. thanks -Kenneth Dragon PvP Warlord
Why don't you quit PvP? Why don't you spend money for crowns to do Tourneys instead of complaining on the message boards? That's what you just did. Telling players to quit PvP just because they have a few issues with it is biased and wrong. PvP has gotten to the point where you HAVE to use TC to win, as so many of you Warlords have claimed. If you HAVE to use TC to win, then it stands to reason that's the only way you can win. Like I said, enough with the random TC comments, this thread is about implementing a system in Ranked PvP not whether TC should be banned or removed.
Guess what? I PvP, I don't use TC, and I'm not going to quit nor am I spending real money for crowns to do a Tourney when Ranked matches are free for us members. Besides, not everyone has the money to do Tourneys, so think that one through next time.
Twisting my words are we? No I said the TC are stronger than the REGULAR SPELL. But some people will not use sun spells I don't know why but they don't. So don't twist my words, if you use sun enchantments then yes that is a different story.
Being higher level does not give you all the advantage, that is clearly just your opinion. Have you seen some of these warlords? They have stats almost equal to the WaterWorks Gear, so you can not say there puny, or anything, the only thing that is wrong is health base. I seen some warlords that lvl 15 that has no shields get hit with a sun enchanted efreet and it only does 300, then the fairy heals them. damage negated the only thing is a weakness.
When I say Skill, I mean something that you put your time into learning, work hard at it, you studied half a life for. For Example, Brain surgeon needs to do brain surgery, studied his whole life for this particular subject and everything, or would you use someone that read about brain surgery and read 30 pages of a text book? that is what I am getting at
Warlords with no school boost your joking right?
are you kidding? critical pretty much doubles the damage. now a tower shield cancels that out, not to mention the warlords resist, and any other shields he has on him, not to mention weakness.
and ONCE AGAIN we are not trying to ban tc, we want where YOU CAN CHOOSE what type of play you want, this will make EVERYONE happy on the tc part
Tell me where we said ban the tc?
" Ice is delicate and beautiful, but can be fierce and deadly"
Angel lvl 85 and others
"When I say Skill, I mean something that you put your time into learning, work hard at it, you studied half a life for. For Example, Brain surgeon needs to do brain surgery, studied his whole life for this particular subject and everything, or would you use someone that read about brain surgery and read 30 pages of a text book? that is what I am getting at"
Are you serious? Walking into your professor and clicking learn is spending half your life studying? It takes more work to get decent TC's than it does to learn most school spells. Comparing a game to brain surgery is taking it a bit far and extremely laughable. Skill in the game context is use of diverse strategies and being ready for different situations if they arise. TC's are just a tool to help wizards be more diverse. Use or Non-use says NOTHING about the skill level of a wizard. You personally spent absolutely no more time or skill learning how to cast a school spell than someone buying or farming a TC.
bro, i absolutely agree with you. whenever i defeat someone, usually lower rank than me, always complain and make up excuses like "tc noobs." some people who called me that even use tc themselves for those who don't use tc in pvp, like Duncan had said, just quit pvp or do the classical tourneys without tc. don't complain on the message board. thanks -Kenneth Dragon PvP Warlord
I wasn't complaining I just think king isle did a poor job on waterworks gear. So I want them to upgrade the waterworks outfit. And I do call tc card user that are warlords tc warlords.
I meant the high lvl wizard should be put with the tc warlord not against them and it not puppetting. The warlord are wrong about puppetting.
That would be puppeting.
People would do that to get easy matches and they would demolish the lower leveled team they faced. Of the two evils, treasure cards are easier to counter for reasons I have stated in my previous post.
And no, people are not wrong about puppeting. While it may be a valid strategy, KI has heard the player's complaints about it and tried to make it harder for people to puppet, which shows that in PvP it's generally frowned upon. If a level 95 teams up with a level 30 and gets to face two level 40-60s is that fair? No, it isn't. The level 95 might have Shadow Shrike and used against lower level players it's deadly.
They don't have a chance at reporting me back. What if I ask them to lose and give a gift to the tc warlord is that cheating?
Ha! You really think you were clever enough to get away with false reporting just because they can't report you back. KI checks the chat after there was a report to see if the report is legit or false. Some people say warlords are the poison of the arena but people like you making false reports and threatening people in the arena are the poison of pvp.
You are like all the others, trying to twist words. Read what I posted on here about Lvl. 1-10 being matched together, then 11-20, 21-30, etc. You are so blind here it's hilarious. Because I'm not trying to remove TC, I'm trying to think of a compromise between the PvPers like you and PvPers like me. Now if you want me to get into a debate about removing TC I'll gladly create a thread for you. You're single-minded, try looking at it from other's points of view for once besides your own.
The real problem in PvP is PvP itself thank you. PvP alone has ruined wonderful ideas Kingsisle originally implemented into the game, but now those ideas have been wasted because 'You and other's efforts' to defend nothing but PvP have essentially started to ruin certain aspects of the game.
Simplify/Elucidate: Sun enchants that reduced the number of pips required to cast a spell. Due to PvP complaints these spells have been removed and only the TC forms are available (which are only rare drops in Celestia, aside from one individual quest that gives 2 as a reward)
2 Power Pip Wands: Wands that gave 2 power pips instead of 1 at the beginning of a battle. Due to PvP complaints these wonderful wands that would of made many bosses players now complain as 'hard' easier are now removed from the game.
Hope you're happy. Guess this game is entirely PvP oriented.
R.I.P. Morgrim, Lvl. 85
PvP is not the problem of this game, PvE and PvP people need to find a compromise to make it fair in pvp and easy in PvE. How do you know pvp has ruined the 2 power pip wand idea you are thinking of hmm? Or are you just guessing? Shadow spells have not been nerfed due to pvp and KI does not hesitate to bring more overpowering spells into the game and in pvp so I don't get what you're talking about. Btw, this topic is on tc so if you wanna make a new topic and whine about pvp ruining the game be my guest.
People would do that to get easy matches and they would demolish the lower leveled team they faced. Of the two evils, treasure cards are easier to counter for reasons I have stated in my previous post.
And no, people are not wrong about puppeting. While it may be a valid strategy, KI has heard the player's complaints about it and tried to make it harder for people to puppet, which shows that in PvP it's generally frowned upon. If a level 95 teams up with a level 30 and gets to face two level 40-60s is that fair? No, it isn't. The level 95 might have Shadow Shrike and used against lower level players it's deadly.
Honestly, if a level 95 and a level 30 get level 40-60 players, that's about as fair as the matches I get in 1v1. I constantly get paired with ranked down level 95s on my balance. If people are complaining about that, and it was fixed, even a little bit, I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed for 1v1, as well.
Um, may I ask why implementing a Classic PvP option into the Ranked system is a bad thing? It allows players to choose which mode they wish to play based on how their play styles are. If you choose to do normal pvp that allows everything then you know that your opponent will definitely be using TC and such while in Classic you'll know it's all normal spells. It would eliminate the TC complaints, because players would have no reason to complain (except for losing). I just fail to see why implementing an option that makes everyone happy is a bad thing. Can someone enlighten me if I'm missing something here?
R.I.P. Morgrim, Lvl. 82
Ya I like that idea because I am a level 62 fire and all I do is lose to players who like to use there tc and win. I want to PVC with people who don't use tc
"When I say Skill, I mean something that you put your time into learning, work hard at it, you studied half a life for. For Example, Brain surgeon needs to do brain surgery, studied his whole life for this particular subject and everything, or would you use someone that read about brain surgery and read 30 pages of a text book? that is what I am getting at"
Are you serious? Walking into your professor and clicking learn is spending half your life studying? It takes more work to get decent TC's than it does to learn most school spells. Comparing a game to brain surgery is taking it a bit far and extremely laughable. Skill in the game context is use of diverse strategies and being ready for different situations if they arise. TC's are just a tool to help wizards be more diverse. Use or Non-use says NOTHING about the skill level of a wizard. You personally spent absolutely no more time or skill learning how to cast a school spell than someone buying or farming a TC.
Mr. Grimwater and I had an excellent debate on the difference between Tactics and Skill. A Skill is something you train for, you put effort into. Tactics are all about devising strategies.
You really want to insult my friend? Alright I'll get serious for this one.
You obviously never made it to Khrysalis, and that's no where near an insult yet. As you so said 'use or non-use says nothing about the skill level of a wizard' try heeding your own words and quit being hypocritical, considering how you just failed with me after trying to say that not-usage of TC shows no skill/intelligence.
You really want to throw that last sentece into this? Because you obviously don't know the meaning of a GAME. There's no skill in a game, all you're doing is using tactics. What exactly are you doing? Clicking a mouse and typing chat. A skill is more than just clicking a button, if it weren't then the definition wouldn't be 'extensive learning/special training' it would be similar to the definition of Tactic and Talent. They are all different. You're making the same mistake Duncan Grimwater made.
What's 'extremely far and laughable' is how badly you and your other 'TC lovers' have twisted this post. If I were admin I'd see a couple of Trolls on here, considering how this all started thanks to Duncan Grimwater and you blowing this all entirely out of context. Kind of funny how I first said 'I support the Classic PvP Option' and now we have kids trying to continually debate with us (and yes, I say kids because the average adult would of seen the analogical connection between DiamonDust's 'brain surgeon' connection instead of taking it all literally, which is exactly what a kid would do).
Like I have said recently: enough with your TC gibberish. We're not here to ban TC so take a step back and think of a new approach. You and a lot of these other trolls are fighting the wrong people on the wrong topic. Think before you speak.
People would do that to get easy matches and they would demolish the lower leveled team they faced. Of the two evils, treasure cards are easier to counter for reasons I have stated in my previous post.
And no, people are not wrong about puppeting. While it may be a valid strategy, KI has heard the player's complaints about it and tried to make it harder for people to puppet, which shows that in PvP it's generally frowned upon. If a level 95 teams up with a level 30 and gets to face two level 40-60s is that fair? No, it isn't. The level 95 might have Shadow Shrike and used against lower level players it's deadly.
Only warlords call it puppetting. And I don't agree with them.
PvP is not the problem of this game, PvE and PvP people need to find a compromise to make it fair in pvp and easy in PvE. How do you know pvp has ruined the 2 power pip wand idea you are thinking of hmm? Or are you just guessing? Shadow spells have not been nerfed due to pvp and KI does not hesitate to bring more overpowering spells into the game and in pvp so I don't get what you're talking about. Btw, this topic is on tc so if you wanna make a new topic and whine about pvp ruining the game be my guest.
This topic is more than just TC, but your arrogance blinds you. When in the subject does it say 'Ban TC'? Hmm? Again:BLIND. The person who started this thread is talking more than just TC, but you're so up tight about TC you failed to read the rest.
As for our 'compromise' again: you're blind. DiamondDust and I as well as the author of this thread suggested implementing a system into the game, but obviously you never read that far.
Shadow Spells are available only at the level cap, so the only reason you think it's overpowered is because you have no clue as to combat them. If you did, you wouldn't call them overpowered. Overpowering Shadow Magic would be making TC versions of it.
This topic is more than TC so unless you're about to read her ENTIRE post and comment on it fully like she intended go make your own thread.
Wizard
for those who don't use tc in pvp, like Duncan had said, just quit pvp or do the classical tourneys without tc. don't complain on the message board. thanks
Care to try again.
(my base health was around 2450
with health gear)