This is the first time I have posted on here, but I am just really angry. I have read over the forums and know that PVP players did the complaining about guardian spirit. Now the spell has been downgraded and is basically useless. I, for one, will be taking it out of my deck completely because it now does more harm than good, and honestly, I think we should be given a new attack card if this card is going to be weakened as much as it has been. The schools that got new stronger attack spells now have a HUGE advantage where life school does not.
I mean if they are going to downgrade it then they should have done it for only PVP or they should reduce the number of pips it requires. At this point, it still requires 5 pips. When you die, you also lose all blades around you and your pips get knocked down to one (or two with a power pip). Now, I do a lot of solo fighting in the PVE part of the game. So when I am fighting four enemies at once, the little bit of life that guardian spirit gives me now (about 1000 points without critical) will not last long (maybe one or two rounds depending on the enemies). It's a HUGE waste of five pips and will actually cause more harm than good. I say if you are going to make it so weak that it basically has no use then you might as well take it out of the game and replace it with something that we can use.
I know PVP players think they rule this game, but there are a lot of people who don't play PVP, and PVP players are ruining the game for us with their constant complaints. Honestly, I don't even understand why people PVP in the first place. I have done it a few times, and in general, people are just nasty. I have had to block chat several times so I wouldn't have to listen, but then they bring their friends to harass people from the sidelines. It's not even fun.
I know you are upset, but how do you think that Storm felt when they nerfed Wild bolt? The group that plays PVP is, imo, just as much a part of the game as PVE. Most games that have PVP find that it is critical to the game, as far as keeping players interested and staying with the game. If you take PVP players out of the game, how will you make it through dungeons without enough players in the game. The group that PVP's is critical to the game, and I don't think that players that only PVE understand that.
Not everyone in the game likes the same thing, that is why PVP is there. PVP is extremely exciting for the players that get involved in it. They spend extreme amounts of crowns and gold, getting reagents, crafting, etc to make their Player at the top of their game. I expect that most PVP players spend a lot more time in the game, than any other PVE player. PVP players do the same quests that PVE players do, but then we have hundrends of hours on top of that, to get what we need.
If you can still heal for 1000 hp with Gaurdian Spirit, why would you complain? No one else in the game can be defeated and come back and still play. All others have to wait for a heal, or flee and then come back. What Life got was an amazing spell, even at 15%, it has a huge impact on PVP and PVE. You can place this on other players, to keep them alive with a great heal when you are defeated. This spell, as is, is the best spell in the game, and absolutely no one can say that it's not.
5 pips for 1000 health seem right in line with most heal spells. Satyr gives you 860 for four pips right? Also guardian spirit is not your normal heal spell in the sense that it brings you back from the dead, all spells with a secondary effect have a lower hit/heal value.
I know people like you love to come and drag mud through the pvp section but will eventually realize we ALL pay real money to play this game so we all deserve a voice. Just because YOU don't pvp does now mean it's not fun, I really laughed at that.
You see when the developers are done making levels and busy with other games pvp will still be around. What are you going to do keep wrapping the game with the same schools? You will get bored and leave, we will still be here in the arena. They have intelligent people working for kingsisle and they don't just change things after lookIng at a thread or two, they have game data and do testing so why don't you back off ranting all over the pvp section k :)
With all due respect, I don't think it's been weakened at all. It brings one back from the dead, and with Heal boost and Critical, it can be for a lot.
Yeah, Joe & Travis, you both are absolutely right, only pvp players pay to play, the rest of this world is just here to, oh, I dunno, be the audience of the PvP players?
Now, I would not call the spell useless either, as PvP players, who use the correct PvP gear, will not see any change in this spell. It is only the PvE community who does not all wear the cosmic kris and stellar signet for PvE.
But alas, my words always fall upon deaf ears, or blind eyes of those that can not read, or wish to not understand what is written.
I agree. It was nerfed for no other reason than to sate the appetite of those who complained in volume. It has already been taken out of my deck and will not be used. This is just one more epic failure on the part of KI. :(
There is an idea that I have been trying to explain to resolve this and I hope that it is understood at some point. My idea is customizable PvP in which players can alternately chose if they do not want healing as one of the option. This separate from regular PvP. In regular PvP all the elements of the present game are active and it cannot be customized. Another option in this idea is to allow players to select spells that are allowed and not allowed for PvP. For example: A player could choose 2 pip 30% accuracy wild bolt for 1000 instead of the one that is currently allow in the game. And see what getting at. Wouldn't it be great if something like this could be done. Wouldn't it be more fair. See these to threads for more info about my idea. https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/49441.ftl https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/49160.ftl
5 pips for 1000 health seem right in line with most heal spells. Satyr gives you 860 for four pips right? Also guardian spirit is not your normal heal spell in the sense that it brings you back from the dead, all spells with a secondary effect have a lower hit/heal value.
Yes, but when you use satyr you don't have to completely start over with no blades and no pips. There is a HUGE difference. At this point, I would say satyr is a better choice than guardian spirit. Using GS now the way it is is a sure death sentence, especially if you are soloing boss missions and going against 3 or 4 enemies at once. Even if you use GS, you'll likely be dead before you have a chance to heal yourself more or cast against them. That's the reason I took it out of my deck. It does more harm than good now.
travisAk wrote:
I know people like you love to come and drag mud through the pvp section but will eventually realize we ALL pay real money to play this game so we all deserve a voice. Just because YOU don't pvp does now mean it's not fun, I really laughed at that.
You are exactly right. We do all deserve a voice. Unfortunately, PVE players don't get one while PVP players do. If it was the other way around you would be the one complaining and I doubt you would be laughing at all. At this point, PVEers are not all getting a voice. You just feel like we are because you are getting your way, and since you could care less about PVE, you don't care that it is paying for the changes you wanted to be made to accommodate PVP. I am sure you did laugh. You are probably one of those players that I was referring to that harasses people, so it probably is fun for you. PVP actually WOULD be fun if the players weren't so nasty. I liked it a lot at first, but that changed after I ran into one to many people that did nothing but use it to be nasty to other players. It's not PVP itself that's not fun, it's the people that ruin it.
In terms of being long gone and not playing after reaching high levels, that is not true either. I still played all the time after I reached level 70. I crafted a lot and helped friends quest. I didn't quit just because I reached high level, but just keep telling yourself that to justify PVPs place on this game. I am level 80 right now, and have been for several weeks and I am still here playing and still paying for my subscription. I wasn't planning on stopping either, but now I am seriously reconsidering. I am not going to pay money for a game that doesn't consider the needs of all players.
BTW didn't I say this way my first post? So how can I be accused of being a person that comes on here ranting all over the PVP section. I made this post and maybe two posts after it lol.
The group that plays PVP is, imo, just as much a part of the game as PVE. Most games that have PVP find that it is critical to the game, as far as keeping players interested and staying with the game. If you take PVP players out of the game, how will you make it through dungeons without enough players in the game. The group that PVP's is critical to the game, and I don't think that players that only PVE understand that.
Not everyone in the game likes the same thing, that is why PVP is there. PVP is extremely exciting for the players that get involved in it. They spend extreme amounts of crowns and gold, getting reagents, crafting, etc to make their Player at the top of their game. I expect that most PVP players spend a lot more time in the game, than any other PVE player. PVP players do the same quests that PVE players do, but then we have hundrends of hours on top of that, to get what we need.
If you can still heal for 1000 hp with Gaurdian Spirit, why would you complain? No one else in the game can be defeated and come back and still play. All others have to wait for a heal, or flee and then come back. What Life got was an amazing spell, even at 15%, it has a huge impact on PVP and PVE. You can place this on other players, to keep them alive with a great heal when you are defeated. This spell, as is, is the best spell in the game, and absolutely no one can say that it's not.
Joe.
I'm not PVP players are not an important part of the game. I just don't think they should be able to control what changes are made for all players. I am not requesting that PVP be banned. All I'm saying is that when the game is adjusted to suit their needs it affects the whole game and all it's players. PVE players didn't stand a chance once PVP players starting complaining about GS because it's already a given that the game is going to be changed to suit PVP players. Not all players needs are taken into consideration. If we all play the game then all of our opinions on changes should be considered and not just the opinions of PVP players. Regardless of what anyone says, all players don't have an equal voice here.
See, I disagree with your second paragraph. I have spent hours upon hours crafting and getting the highest level crafting badge. I even craft my own clothes among other things like housing items. I have spent tons and tons of gold and time getting the reagents I need. Just because I don't PVP doesn't mean I don't want to be a strong player, and it definitely doesn't mean I don't spend just as much time crafting. Crafting is one of my favorite things to do in this game, and I do it a lot. I would venture a guess that I do it even more than some PVP players.
I also disagree about the GS being the best spell in the game. I have personal experience using it in various situations, and I can honestly say that it's not. Maybe it was before the change, but it's not now. Not at all. It's just the opposite now and is a good way to get you killed if you are soloing a boss mission and fighting multiple enemies. I solo the game a lot and often take on groups of four enemies on my own. This spell was useful in that aspect before it was changed, and I used it often. I think what people don't consider is that when you die and come back, you are stripped of all blades and shields and all but one pips. So you are basically starting over (but worse because at least when you start you have two pips) and with only 1000 life you won't make it long against multiple enemies, especially if you are alone. You would barely have time to build up pips to attack or heal before you are killed considering the spells used by some enemies in Avalon, and at best, you will be spending the rest of the fight just trying to stay alive. As a matter of fact, even if you are only fighting two enemies if both enemies cast strong spells in one round and have blades up you could die right away in the next round. That's not even considering what could happen going up against three or four enemies. Like I said, it's basically a useless spell now, and has been taken out of my deck. I've learned my lesson trying to use it a few times after the change. It's no longer worth it. I would rather have those slots in my deck being used by other healing cards. The unfortunate part is that Life is now left without a good advance spell. This spell as it is now would be more helpful to people at lower levels. It really does no good to use it in upper level worlds like Avalon.
Yeah, Joe & Travis, you both are absolutely right, only pvp players pay to play, the rest of this world is just here to, oh, I dunno, be the audience of the PvP players?
Now, I would not call the spell useless either, as PvP players, who use the correct PvP gear, will not see any change in this spell. It is only the PvE community who does not all wear the cosmic kris and stellar signet for PvE.
But alas, my words always fall upon deaf ears, or blind eyes of those that can not read, or wish to not understand what is written.
Your sarcastic tone may fall on deaf ears as I don't get your point. Kingsisle has to balance different aspects of pvp and that includes pvp as well as pVe. Do you think life is at a healing disadvantage now in the next world lol?l...
As mentioned before I have no view either way on the guardian spirit spell as I have dropped out of high level pvp a long time ago, which makes my opinion neutral.
I am tired of people blamIng pvp players for all the worlds troubles though.
Darth were you not the one tearing up about the wildbolt change? Someone of your self proclaimed status should be intelligent enough to understand why it was done, KI shouldn't have to write a long explanation for you lol.
Someone of your self proclaimed status should be intelligent enough to understand why it was done, KI shouldn't have to write a long explanation for you lol.
Hi Travis,
As I started this brouhaha, I feel I should reply.
In the quote above, you make the insinuation that wizards who don't agree with and/or "understand" why Guardian Spirit was changed are unintelligent.
This is part of the problem. There is an elitist mindset among many professional-style PvP'ers that suggests those of us who establish mastery in PvE instead of PvP are intellectually enfeebled, impaired, and thus we need someone to take care of these details for us. We don't.
PvE players are often at least as accomplished with spell casting, pet training, gear farming/crafting, etc. as the smaller PvP faction in the Spiral. We wear high level gear, including those items you mentioned, we farm WW and ToH for the gear. Many of us spend long periods of time working out strategies, techniques, styles that define our performance in PvE encounters. We are knowledgeable, skillful, and proud of our hard work and success in game. And we don't need PvP to dictate how our spells work. We don't need to "balance" PvE, it is fine as it is, as it WAS before PvP started calling the shots.
So neutral as you may think you are, you DO appear to retain a sense of PvP superiority, you do seem to condescend to PvE wizards, IMHO you do show a bias. I don't want to pick a fight with you, but I would like for you to know who started this PvE versus PvP argument, and I would like for you to remember that I am rather intelligent, and that I am certainly able to decide how my spells should work in PvE. So is Darthj and everyone else who agrees that PvE stands as subservient to PvP at this time. Oh, and we would LOVE to see KI show support for PvE and explain past and current spell changes in terms of PvE consequences.
Someone of your self proclaimed status should be intelligent enough to understand why it was done, KI shouldn't have to write a long explanation for you lol.
Hi Travis,
As I started this brouhaha, I feel I should reply.
In the quote above, you make the insinuation that wizards who don't agree with and/or "understand" why Guardian Spirit was changed are unintelligent.
This is part of the problem. There is an elitist mindset among many professional-style PvP'ers that suggests those of us who establish mastery in PvE instead of PvP are intellectually enfeebled, impaired, and thus we need someone to take care of these details for us. We don't.
PvE players are often at least as accomplished with spell casting, pet training, gear farming/crafting, etc. as the smaller PvP faction in the Spiral. We wear high level gear, including those items you mentioned, we farm WW and ToH for the gear. Many of us spend long periods of time working out strategies, techniques, styles that define our performance in PvE encounters. We are knowledgeable, skillful, and proud of our hard work and success in game. And we don't need PvP to dictate how our spells work. We don't need to "balance" PvE, it is fine as it is, as it WAS before PvP started calling the shots.
So neutral as you may think you are, you DO appear to retain a sense of PvP superiority, you do seem to condescend to PvE wizards, IMHO you do show a bias. I don't want to pick a fight with you, but I would like for you to know who started this PvE versus PvP argument, and I would like for you to remember that I am rather intelligent, and that I am certainly able to decide how my spells should work in PvE. So is Darthj and everyone else who agrees that PvE stands as subservient to PvP at this time. Oh, and we would LOVE to see KI show support for PvE and explain past and current spell changes in terms of PvE consequences.
Warmest Regards,
Qbb/Iridian Shadowweaver, Theurgist
Iridian,
KIngisle has to make everyone happy and I don't admire the job sometimes considering the different dynamics of this game. In my opinion they have been making pvp problem cards (insane bolt, Talos) a no pvp TC item instead of a game wide level cap out of consideration to people playing PVE, so they can be used by characters of low level to help with questing.
Now I can understand your feelings on the subject of the new spell guardian spirit but I don't think the makers considered the fact that with health boosts it would crit and bring back all of the Life wizards health back. This made the Average pvp player a little uneasy and that probably accounts for the complaints. Matches as they are now at high level are sometimes 3 hours and with two life players of great skill it could very well never end the way it was.
I did not mean to belittle the PvE community at all, more of a direct reply to a few people, so if you felt personal discomfort about my words I'm sorry for that.
I will tell you though that spells like wild bolt were changed because of conditions in the main game and in pvp, the game was going in a direction that could not support the spell anymore, there were reasons for it. Kingsisle thinks before they change anything in this game because it influences and affects many people that play it for different reasons, to think that they base every decision of a few complaints is childish. You just have to trust in their decisions and move forward knowing fair well that -10% on guardian spirit isn't going to ruin your pVe expierience. .
I will tell you though that spells like wild bolt were changed because of conditions in the main game and in pvp, the game was going in a direction that could not support the spell anymore, there were reasons for it. Kingsisle thinks before they change anything in this game because it influences and affects many people that play it for different reasons, to think that they base every decision of a few complaints is childish. You just have to trust in their decisions and move forward knowing fair well that -10% on guardian spirit isn't going to ruin your pVe expierience. .
Hi,
First, prove with evidence that those spells were problematic in PvE. Please quote me a message from the Commons or Dorms that complains about OP spells in PvE.
Second, KI is now changing spells AFTER release into the live game, based on complaints spammed in these PvP forums.
Third, don't call me or anyone who is tired of all of this "childish". I'm an adult, not a child, and I pay lots of money to get what I want out of this game as a casual PvE player. I do not pay to support PvP.
Fourth, You are correct; I don't even have Guardian Spirit in my deck. Know why? It's absolutely useless in general PvE. PvP complaints saw to that. Yes?
So, we will continue to disagree. I require proof that KI makes any of these changes for the well-being of our entire community. Thus far, evidence suggests that all changes since the CL release have been exclusively for PvP benefit, at the expense of PvE.
Yeah, Joe & Travis, you both are absolutely right, only pvp players pay to play, the rest of this world is just here to, oh, I dunno, be the audience of the PvP players?
Now, I would not call the spell useless either, as PvP players, who use the correct PvP gear, will not see any change in this spell. It is only the PvE community who does not all wear the cosmic kris and stellar signet for PvE.
But alas, my words always fall upon deaf ears, or blind eyes of those that can not read, or wish to not understand what is written.
Your sarcastic tone may fall on deaf ears as I don't get your point. Kingsisle has to balance different aspects of pvp and that includes pvp as well as pVe. Do you think life is at a healing disadvantage now in the next world lol?l...
I figured that you would not understand my low level apprentice, hence why I simply stated, fall upon deaf ears, rather than in one ear and out the other. As you are low level and not where we are, you don't know the effects that it has, or the fact that PVP players do not wear the same gear as PVE players, not sure how that is hard to understand, but not everyone has the mind that I do. So, you are forgiven. As mentioned before I have no view either way on the guardian spirit spell as I have dropped out of high level pvp a long time ago, which makes my opinion neutral.
I am tired of people blamIng pvp players for all the worlds troubles though. Ah yes, the ol "I didn't do it". Do you hear massisve cries from the PvE community about how overpowered these spells are? *Cricket**Cricket* *Tink-dink-Tink*(as pin drops).
Darth were you not the one tearing up about the wildbolt change? Someone of your self proclaimed status should be intelligent enough to understand why it was done, KI shouldn't have to write a long explanation for you lol.
Ah yes, the infamous rebuttal, Pardon me my young chap, but when does Storm get WildBolt? Oh after Marleybone! That's right. Let's see, storm critical at that point, 0! Storms Accuracy at that point, well +15 at 45 +pet. Low level WildBolt was not as damaging and is even worse with the change as Gargantuan is level 55+. I have proven all this in my posts.
Now, on to higher level PVP, where storm gets +22% accuracy +pet, + 35% enchantment + Critical + Storm Boosts, yeah, that spell would have been overpowered for PVP as it is now, considering pets can give 10% storm sniper, +6% sharp shot, +6% storm shot.
Where as before, with storms enchantments it would have taken storm to +70% accuracy on WildBolt, but KI did know that they planned on continuing accuracy boosts, although, no real reason to have more than 30% accuracy boosts, except the fact that some bosses now have INK.
However, from level 30 to 55, the change to this spell was rendered useless to the PVE community, which is what I have said all along, mr. I don't understand. Which again, effects the PVE community for the sake of PVP, which you seem quite ademant that it's not PVP's fault. PvP I am sure had nothing to do with +2 pip wands being taken out of the game, or the IceZilla pet, or Simplify or Elucidate!
Think my young apprentice, it's not that difficult to understand.
I absolutely agree with the creator of this post, the spell was fine as it was. I liked it and used it with good effect on several occasions. In a couple of boss battles, it proved to my advantage to allow myself to get defeated to remove curses (and setting traps meanwhile). Now it is far less effective than it used to be and I can't see the reasoning behind it. I assume it was players complaining about it's effectiveness in PVP? That seems to be the consensus here. Does anyone know of KI posting their reason for doing this anywhere?
While we're on the subject, I do enjoy PVP from time to time and feel that my life wizard is the least suited of any that I have to PVP in cases of group battles. When other schools can have a life amulet, a ring and an athame with decent heal boosts and a few treasure cards (rebirth and unicorn in particular), what is the advantage in being a life wizard? There isn't one. Or rather, there used to be one, and it used to be guardian spirit. I mean, I guess we still have mass triage for what that's worth.
Sure, sure, craft some hybrid gear and get an elemental school amulet. Nope, still doesn't balance out. You'll never do the kind of damage that someone who is from that school can do, but ANYONE can heal just as well as a life wizard does, provided they have the gear. Then their offensive spells will outmatch you. (I still win more than I lose though :D )
So, yes, reduce the effectiveness for PVP if you feel that will keep the membership revenue from fleeing, but I want to see it back at 25% in PVE. Or, better yet, (I mean,since you've seen fit to give storm a heal spell and all :p) how's about a 4 pip, or an (X) pip hit-all spell for life school? A bunch of vines or something swinging around and slashing at the opposition or some such thing. That would bring some sorely needed balance in that area. We are due for that. Well past due.
Thank you for your consideration, Calamity Skullblood Archmage Theurgist
Let us relax a bit here, people. Let's review the facts of the problem calmly and carefully.
*As of Avalon's release, Guardian Spirit revived a player for 25% of their health.
*Critical and Healing boost could create full health revivals.
*This was a problem in both PvP and PvE. Let me finish here before you try to tell me how wrong I am!
*PvE is designed to be as strategic as PvP. Strategy isn't really required when you know you can just toss up a card whenever your health gets low. As for PvP, it could stretch matches well past the point of surrender on the opponent's side.
*With recent updates, the spell was altered to 15%. Not quite the fix I was hoping for, as just making it No Critical and reducing/removing the affect heal boost has on it would be more effective.
*I get the feeling Kingsisle designed this as Life's "Hail Mary", something like Storm's Bolts. Life wizards have taken to using it as frequently as they want in PvP. This unbalanced it. Additionally, the removal of the strategic element in PvE was an important factor. Like I said, how can there be a challenge if you know that even if you die you'll just come back?
*In my opinion, reviewing the facts, Life's card is still powerful. The only way that it could truly be a "Hail Mary", in my opinion, is give it a chance of backfiring like Insane Bolt.
Proposal: Revives to 20% upon defeat or -90% to next Healing Spell. It would be a 70-30 chance, with the majority being a successful revival. This would decrease the card's spammability, but also give it a very good chance to successfully give you a good amount of health back.
Let us relax a bit here, people. Let's review the facts of the problem calmly and carefully.
*As of Avalon's release, Guardian Spirit revived a player for 25% of their health.
*Critical and Healing boost could create full health revivals.
*This was a problem in both PvP and PvE. Let me finish here before you try to tell me how wrong I am!
*PvE is designed to be as strategic as PvP. Strategy isn't really required when you know you can just toss up a card whenever your health gets low. As for PvP, it could stretch matches well past the point of surrender on the opponent's side.
*With recent updates, the spell was altered to 15%. Not quite the fix I was hoping for, as just making it No Critical and reducing/removing the affect heal boost has on it would be more effective.
*I get the feeling Kingsisle designed this as Life's "Hail Mary", something like Storm's Bolts. Life wizards have taken to using it as frequently as they want in PvP. This unbalanced it. Additionally, the removal of the strategic element in PvE was an important factor. Like I said, how can there be a challenge if you know that even if you die you'll just come back?
*In my opinion, reviewing the facts, Life's card is still powerful. The only way that it could truly be a "Hail Mary", in my opinion, is give it a chance of backfiring like Insane Bolt.
Proposal: Revives to 20% upon defeat or -90% to next Healing Spell. It would be a 70-30 chance, with the majority being a successful revival. This would decrease the card's spammability, but also give it a very good chance to successfully give you a good amount of health back.
Dont forget if mobs starting using it as a cheat, people from pve would be complaining too.
How do you see gaurdian spirit as useless? You can revive someone from the dead ahead of time! I'm a life wizard myself, and i use it constantly in group play. I use it on all my friends so, I can focus on attacking the whole battle cause I know there gonna get revived. A decent life wizard can make good use of this spell, 15% or not.
This is bad for people who dont even care about pvp.Take a moment and think will you be happy if they nerf your spell.example-efreet,dr.vankanstein,all rank 6+ storm spells(hate storm) :P Ra,earthquake I wouldn't be happy if they removed my spell's from pvp life can have enough trouble with one life shield.don't
I will tell you though that spells like wild bolt were changed because of conditions in the main game and in pvp, the game was going in a direction that could not support the spell anymore, there were reasons for it. Kingsisle thinks before they change anything in this game because it influences and affects many people that play it for different reasons, to think that they base every decision of a few complaints is childish. You just have to trust in their decisions and move forward knowing fair well that -10% on guardian spirit isn't going to ruin your pVe expierience. .
Hi,
First, prove with evidence that those spells were problematic in PvE. Please quote me a message from the Commons or Dorms that complains about OP spells in PvE.
Second, KI is now changing spells AFTER release into the live game, based on complaints spammed in these PvP forums.
Third, don't call me or anyone who is tired of all of this "childish". I'm an adult, not a child, and I pay lots of money to get what I want out of this game as a casual PvE player. I do not pay to support PvP.
Fourth, You are correct; I don't even have Guardian Spirit in my deck. Know why? It's absolutely useless in general PvE. PvP complaints saw to that. Yes?
So, we will continue to disagree. I require proof that KI makes any of these changes for the well-being of our entire community. Thus far, evidence suggests that all changes since the CL release have been exclusively for PvP benefit, at the expense of PvE.
Q. Why the change all of a sudden? Is it because of PVP? Celestia?
Wild bolt has actually been on our hit list for a while (even before Celestia and level 50+ combat changes), but we wanted to take the time to think through a change that would be both balanced, but still within the spirit of the spell (it's very unique and we didn't want to take that away). What took the cake is some of the enhancements that brought up the accuracy so much that it was reliably hitting for 1000. That was never intended and obviously needed to change.
While it's absolutely true that it was a hot button topic in PVP and initially brought to our attention in that capacity, we feel that the imbalance wasn't only in the arena (especially after the level cap increase). We as a team would not simply make a global change to a spell that worked fine in PVE but was broken in PVP. However, that was not the case, and hence why we made the change to the spell that we did.
In summary, we far far far prefer to buff rather than nerf classes. We just really had our hands tied on this one. We’re sorry we had to make the change and we know it stinks to lose some power but we are always reviewing class balance. That's the wonderful thing about an MMO that's constantly updated - we always have a chance to make changes when they're appropriate.
That spell was indeed changed for overall game balance.
I would like to suggest to travisAK to seriously take a look gear stats as he runs around the Spiral. Darthjt is correct there is a huge difference in gear between the average PvE player and a PvP player especially high ranking PvP players. My good friend in game (PvE) kept commenting on how people were dying in ZF and AV. She went on to note their gear stats and that is why. Many of my thoughts here come from our discussions. Well now a new friend (PvP Warlord) has noticed the same thing. He told me once you get to upper level PvP gear is not an issue and everybody has the best gear. Well, he has been helping my gals all over the Spiral and he is noticing the huge difference gear makes. He also is noticing how the average PvE player is suffering because of gear.
The best gear in game is available by farming, crafting or Hoard Packs. (My Ice Staff from the Raven Hoard pack got me through most of AV. I switched it out when I won a Wyrd Oak Staff.) Well people who don't or can't do those three things are now at severe disadvantage. It is used to be in WC-DS very good gear was available in the Bazaar. My friend helped me remember that. My Storm recently hit level 50 and traded out her robe from the Bazaar for Malistaire's robe. The difference between the two is a card and resist to Storm.
The results in healing you state are from PvP not PvE. Obviously the best gear gets the best results. My using it in PvE got nowhere near that.
It remains to be seen if this was like Wild Bolt or not. I do wish our esteemed Professors would answer this like they did the Wild Bolt issue.
I will tell you though that spells like wild bolt were changed because of conditions in the main game and in pvp, the game was going in a direction that could not support the spell anymore, there were reasons for it. Kingsisle thinks before they change anything in this game because it influences and affects many people that play it for different reasons, to think that they base every decision of a few complaints is childish. You just have to trust in their decisions and move forward knowing fair well that -10% on guardian spirit isn't going to ruin your pVe expierience. .
Hi,
First, prove with evidence that those spells were problematic in PvE. Please quote me a message from the Commons or Dorms that complains about OP spells in PvE.
Second, KI is now changing spells AFTER release into the live game, based on complaints spammed in these PvP forums.
Third, don't call me or anyone who is tired of all of this "childish". I'm an adult, not a child, and I pay lots of money to get what I want out of this game as a casual PvE player. I do not pay to support PvP.
Fourth, You are correct; I don't even have Guardian Spirit in my deck. Know why? It's absolutely useless in general PvE. PvP complaints saw to that. Yes?
So, we will continue to disagree. I require proof that KI makes any of these changes for the well-being of our entire community. Thus far, evidence suggests that all changes since the CL release have been exclusively for PvP benefit, at the expense of PvE.
Q. Why the change all of a sudden? Is it because of PVP? Celestia?
Wild bolt has actually been on our hit list for a while (even before Celestia and level 50+ combat changes), but we wanted to take the time to think through a change that would be both balanced, but still within the spirit of the spell (it's very unique and we didn't want to take that away). What took the cake is some of the enhancements that brought up the accuracy so much that it was reliably hitting for 1000. That was never intended and obviously needed to change.
While it's absolutely true that it was a hot button topic in PVP and initially brought to our attention in that capacity, we feel that the imbalance wasn't only in the arena (especially after the level cap increase). We as a team would not simply make a global change to a spell that worked fine in PVE but was broken in PVP. However, that was not the case, and hence why we made the change to the spell that we did.
In summary, we far far far prefer to buff rather than nerf classes. We just really had our hands tied on this one. We’re sorry we had to make the change and we know it stinks to lose some power but we are always reviewing class balance. That's the wonderful thing about an MMO that's constantly updated - we always have a chance to make changes when they're appropriate.
That spell was indeed changed for overall game balance.
I would like to suggest to travisAK to seriously take a look gear stats as he runs around the Spiral. Darthjt is correct there is a huge difference in gear between the average PvE player and a PvP player especially high ranking PvP players. My good friend in game (PvE) kept commenting on how people were dying in ZF and AV. She went on to note their gear stats and that is why. Many of my thoughts here come from our discussions. Well now a new friend (PvP Warlord) has noticed the same thing. He told me once you get to upper level PvP gear is not an issue and everybody has the best gear. Well, he has been helping my gals all over the Spiral and he is noticing the huge difference gear makes. He also is noticing how the average PvE player is suffering because of gear.
The best gear in game is available by farming, crafting or Hoard Packs. (My Ice Staff from the Raven Hoard pack got me through most of AV. I switched it out when I won a Wyrd Oak Staff.) Well people who don't or can't do those three things are now at severe disadvantage. It is used to be in WC-DS very good gear was available in the Bazaar. My friend helped me remember that. My Storm recently hit level 50 and traded out her robe from the Bazaar for Malistaire's robe. The difference between the two is a card and resist to Storm.
The results in healing you state are from PvP not PvE. Obviously the best gear gets the best results. My using it in PvE got nowhere near that.
It remains to be seen if this was like Wild Bolt or not. I do wish our esteemed Professors would answer this like they did the Wild Bolt issue.
Megan
i do have to agree with that part about the gear ive seen people with gear that should have been for a different school. idk why people wouldnt wanna take the time to farm ww and get the ultimate gear as well as getting some awesome pet snacks along the way(they brang back the mega snacks in ww for those of you who didnt know) :-)
"While it's absolutely true that it was a hot button topic in PVP and initially brought to our attention in that capacity, we feel that the imbalance wasn't only in the arena (especially after the level cap increase). We as a team would not simply make a global change to a spell that worked fine in PVE but was broken in PVP. However, that was not the case, and hence why we made the change to the spell that we did.
In summary, we far far far prefer to buff rather than nerf classes. We just really had our hands tied on this one. We’re sorry we had to make the change and we know it stinks to lose some power but we are always reviewing class balance. That's the wonderful thing about an MMO that's constantly updated - we always have a chance to make changes when they're appropriate. " --Falmea
Thank you, Megan. But the reply from Professor Falmea makes a general claim without any explanation or proof. Just because she said that the change to Wild Bolt was made for game balance doesn't make it factual. I need facts, math, proof. I want an explanation geared toward my adult mind, my level of accomplishment in-game, an explanation that will convince me that KI doesn't cater to PvP above PvE. Until then, I won't believe it. There's too much of a pattern in the PvP forums here and at Central for me to be comforted with blind faith.
The fact of the matter is, I wouldn't be so concerned about this if I hadn't seen that set of points for argument and the accompanying strategy thread to promote the nerf to GS at Central, I probably would have remained oblivious to this inequitable turn of events. I find it eyebrow-archingly curious as to why now those same voices are organizing an argument for PvP to test all spells before PvE players may use them in quests...
Anyway, I think KI owes the PvE community a clear and thorough explanation of how these changes enhance game-play outside of the arena.
As always, your friend, (albeit a very, very stubborn one :)
Let us relax a bit here, people. Let's review the facts of the problem calmly and carefully.
*As of Avalon's release, Guardian Spirit revived a player for 25% of their health.
*Critical and Healing boost could create full health revivals.
*This was a problem in both PvP and PvE. Let me finish here before you try to tell me how wrong I am!
*PvE is designed to be as strategic as PvP. Strategy isn't really required when you know you can just toss up a card whenever your health gets low. As for PvP, it could stretch matches well past the point of surrender on the opponent's side.
*With recent updates, the spell was altered to 15%. Not quite the fix I was hoping for, as just making it No Critical and reducing/removing the affect heal boost has on it would be more effective.
*I get the feeling Kingsisle designed this as Life's "Hail Mary", something like Storm's Bolts. Life wizards have taken to using it as frequently as they want in PvP. This unbalanced it. Additionally, the removal of the strategic element in PvE was an important factor. Like I said, how can there be a challenge if you know that even if you die you'll just come back?
*In my opinion, reviewing the facts, Life's card is still powerful. The only way that it could truly be a "Hail Mary", in my opinion, is give it a chance of backfiring like Insane Bolt.
Proposal: Revives to 20% upon defeat or -90% to next Healing Spell. It would be a 70-30 chance, with the majority being a successful revival. This would decrease the card's spammability, but also give it a very good chance to successfully give you a good amount of health back.
Dont forget if mobs starting using it as a cheat, people from pve would be complaining too.
How do you see gaurdian spirit as useless? You can revive someone from the dead ahead of time! I'm a life wizard myself, and i use it constantly in group play. I use it on all my friends so, I can focus on attacking the whole battle cause I know there gonna get revived. A decent life wizard can make good use of this spell, 15% or not.
I see, so now we are not "decent" life wizards if we count the card as useless. I noticed that you missed my point in both of my posts, since you are talking about using it effectively in group play. I am talking about using it to solo multiple enemies. There is a BIG difference. It has nothing to do with being a decent life wizard. The spell simply is not effective when you are soloing major boss fights, which I do often. At the level it was before (25%), it was fine because it would bring me back with enough time to set up a hit or fully heal myself. At this point, it doesn't give me enough life to allow time to set up for the blades that I have lost, to replenish the pips that were knocked down to one, or even to heal myself further in most cases. If I am against strong bosses, and avalon has them, I will be dead in one or two rounds and won't even have time to recover. It's a waste of pips and you are basically setting yourself up to die if you use it. Try soloing a couple of boss fights using it...white owl tower is one I soloed before the change (yes I soloed it even though by your standards I am not a "decent" life wizard)...and then tell me if you still feel it's effective in this type of battle when you are alone. To expand a bit, I also used it in a fight I was in with one other wizard. It did not save us then either. So yes, if you are in a group and you don't take many hits and your job is to mostly heal then it might work for you, but not everyone has three other players with them all the time to pick up the slack.
Let us relax a bit here, people. Let's review the facts of the problem calmly and carefully.
*As of Avalon's release, Guardian Spirit revived a player for 25% of their health.
*Critical and Healing boost could create full health revivals.
*This was a problem in both PvP and PvE. Let me finish here before you try to tell me how wrong I am!
*PvE is designed to be as strategic as PvP. Strategy isn't really required when you know you can just toss up a card whenever your health gets low. As for PvP, it could stretch matches well past the point of surrender on the opponent's side.
*With recent updates, the spell was altered to 15%. Not quite the fix I was hoping for, as just making it No Critical and reducing/removing the affect heal boost has on it would be more effective.
*I get the feeling Kingsisle designed this as Life's "Hail Mary", something like Storm's Bolts. Life wizards have taken to using it as frequently as they want in PvP. This unbalanced it. Additionally, the removal of the strategic element in PvE was an important factor. Like I said, how can there be a challenge if you know that even if you die you'll just come back?
*In my opinion, reviewing the facts, Life's card is still powerful. The only way that it could truly be a "Hail Mary", in my opinion, is give it a chance of backfiring like Insane Bolt.
Proposal: Revives to 20% upon defeat or -90% to next Healing Spell. It would be a 70-30 chance, with the majority being a successful revival. This would decrease the card's spammability, but also give it a very good chance to successfully give you a good amount of health back.
Dont forget if mobs starting using it as a cheat, people from pve would be complaining too.
How do you see gaurdian spirit as useless? You can revive someone from the dead ahead of time! I'm a life wizard myself, and i use it constantly in group play. I use it on all my friends so, I can focus on attacking the whole battle cause I know there gonna get revived. A decent life wizard can make good use of this spell, 15% or not.
Actually, I didn't see this spell as useless. I found the alteration to it incorrect for the problem.
