QBB brought up an interesting subject, something that many seem to be very annoyed with.
"Why is PVE subservient to PVP."
A secondary item that may add to this ignominious feeling, is the fact that many in PVP feel superior to those that do not PVP. No question that a higher Ranking adds to one being lulled into the concept they hold a measureable set of articulated skills on other players.
After rereading the postings, especially those by posted by QBB and Megan, it's clear this is certainly not true.
The question still remains, is PVE subservient to PVP. I do believe the answer is yes, and that it shall remain that way. Here are the reasons why I feel that is the case, and KI may unfortunately have no choice at this point.
(Some statements are directly from my Dad). First, KI like any company has limited resources, and has a predefined plan and deadlines to attain. Example, the next world after Avalon, already has a few details released.
Second, it is very difficult for any Gamer company to change the main structure of their program. This is not only cost ineffective, but generates a whole new set of issues to deal with.
Third, Programming out the new bugs is very time consuming, and I would expect that few Managers/CEO’s would allow a major revamp, Without being able to prove the roi (return on investment).
Fourth, KI is moving on to new games, which means that most likely any excess resources will be moved into the expansion area.
Fifth, (my opinion), PVP needs to stay balanced, as it would be so unfair to allow it to be unplayable for any Wizard. Even if it nerfs a few spells along the way, PVP has to stay balanced to be fair.
Sixth, (again my opinion) the nerfing of spells has little effect on PVE, and I really believe this to be true. I know that many don’t like it, but I know this is the case based on my own PVE experience. Has my Life reached Level 72, no, but he’s close, all the other 5 have attained 72 or are at Level 80. I can go on with this, but I’m sure the idea is already there, that I am trying to make.
Things change, even for me, as I now leave June 22nd for my summer work (unexpected, as I was hoping to be home until late August, but that’s life). The next two weeks will be intense, and I will have very limited time for anything else. So this will be my last posting (except a goodbye posting in the PVP section). I wish the best for the Spiral and everyone in it. Thanks for all the replies, and wishing all the very best for you.
Good luck on your new beginnings Joe! You have quickly found a spot on my favorite posters list.
Your Dad and you make excellent points.
I will just address the PvP issue. My thoughts are PvP and PvE need more separation. PvE NPC's are getting bigger and stronger. Our powers need to grow along with them. This presents problems in PvP and unbalances it. This is where the OP statements stem from IMO. Spells that are just fine in PvE wreak havoc in PvP. Guardian Spirit is the latest example. So that means two or three things need to happen IMO, first would be more of a separation. Easier said than done I suspect for the reasons you stated so clearly. Second would be PvE NPC's need to be scaled back to where we can grow and not unbalance PvP. Problem here is the howls of not enough challenge would erupt and shake the rafters. Third would be leave it all alone and continue on. As you said I think this is what will happen. For this I think KI needs to communicate with us about why things are done. Knowledge is a powerful tool. It also is is good customer relations.
Another thing would be a through vetting of new game additions in Test. Once a spell leaves Test it should be left alone. The point of Test is vet new products. I also think they need to announce Test earlier and on the log on screen like they used to so more people can test products.
QBB brought up an interesting subject, something that many seem to be very annoyed with.
"Why is PVE subservient to PVP."
A secondary item that may add to this ignominious feeling, is the fact that many in PVP feel superior to those that do not PVP. No question that a higher Ranking adds to one being lulled into the concept they hold a measureable set of articulated skills on other players.
After rereading the postings, especially those by posted by QBB and Megan, it's clear this is certainly not true.
The question still remains, is PVE subservient to PVP. I do believe the answer is yes, and that it shall remain that way. Here are the reasons why I feel that is the case, and KI may unfortunately have no choice at this point.
(Some statements are directly from my Dad). First, KI like any company has limited resources, and has a predefined plan and deadlines to attain. Example, the next world after Avalon, already has a few details released.
Second, it is very difficult for any Gamer company to change the main structure of their program. This is not only cost ineffective, but generates a whole new set of issues to deal with.
Third, Programming out the new bugs is very time consuming, and I would expect that few Managers/CEO’s would allow a major revamp, Without being able to prove the roi (return on investment).
Fourth, KI is moving on to new games, which means that most likely any excess resources will be moved into the expansion area.
Fifth, (my opinion), PVP needs to stay balanced, as it would be so unfair to allow it to be unplayable for any Wizard. Even if it nerfs a few spells along the way, PVP has to stay balanced to be fair.
Sixth, (again my opinion) the nerfing of spells has little effect on PVE, and I really believe this to be true. I know that many don’t like it, but I know this is the case based on my own PVE experience. Has my Life reached Level 72, no, but he’s close, all the other 5 have attained 72 or are at Level 80. I can go on with this, but I’m sure the idea is already there, that I am trying to make.
Things change, even for me, as I now leave June 22nd for my summer work (unexpected, as I was hoping to be home until late August, but that’s life). The next two weeks will be intense, and I will have very limited time for anything else. So this will be my last posting (except a goodbye posting in the PVP section). I wish the best for the Spiral and everyone in it. Thanks for all the replies, and wishing all the very best for you.
Joe. Joseph Lionhunter.
I disagree with you on many points. I will agree that SOME not all high ranking PvPers are putting forth a superior front which is causing some problems as well within the PvP community. But since I left PvP along time ago, I stay away from those discussions. If I ever return to PvP, then I will join them. At this point that is not likely.
1. PvP is not the main focus of the game. PvE is the main focus. PvP was added as a side feature AFTER the game was offered to the public. So therefore, KI would not have to change the structure of the game. I don't know where you got the idea that PvP was the main structure, but I assure you, it is not.
2. PvE should not be for any reason at any time subservient to PvP. I think KI intended for both entities to work as a community and it did for a while.
3. KI does try very hard to fix as many bugs as possible. In order for them to fix some of them, they do require certain bits of information from those reporting the bug. Some of the issues that some of us do have with bugs are actually a problem with our own computers. These are things KI can't fix.... They have been very attentive to some of the issues that some of us have with older graphics cards and do the best they can to fix them. But they can't just dig into our systems and fix everything. That would be impossible. And yes, it is very time consuming.
4. Yes, KI is creating new games and have been working on some for a long time. KI does hire a techs in all fields to fill the positions, they do not have excess resources to just move around.
5. PvP has not been balanced in a long time therefore, I can't believe you did PvP and not see that. Why do you think so many have left the arena until some of the issues can be fixed?
6. There are millions of players from the PvE community that have been playing longer than you that would disagree with you on the nerfing of spells having only a little effect on how we play. The nerfing of spells to satisfy the PvPers has and is having a larger effect than you are seeing.
You cannot base the effect just on your own experience with the game. Cause and Effect is not based on an individual. It is based on the community as a whole as it should be.
Some of the effects are harder for a casual player to see. If they are not playing and haven't been for a while, then they don't notice things like the rest of us do. Those of us that play on a regular basis such as weekenders to everyday players see what is really happening.
I will just address the PvP issue. My thoughts are PvP and PvE need more separation. PvE NPC's are getting bigger and stronger. Our powers need to grow along with them. This presents problems in PvP and unbalances it. This is where the OP statements stem from IMO. Spells that are just fine in PvE wreak havoc in PvP. Guardian Spirit is the latest example. So that means two or three things need to happen IMO, first would be more of a separation. Easier said than done I suspect for the reasons you stated so clearly. Second would be PvE NPC's need to be scaled back to where we can grow and not unbalance PvP. Problem here is the howls of not enough challenge would erupt and shake the rafters. Third would be leave it all alone and continue on. As you said I think this is what will happen. For this I think KI needs to communicate with us about why things are done. Knowledge is a powerful tool. It also is is good customer relations.
Another thing would be a through vetting of new game additions in Test. Once a spell leaves Test it should be left alone. The point of Test is vet new products. I also think they need to announce Test earlier and on the log on screen like they used to so more people can test products.
Megan
Megan, I think you have hit the nail on the head. This is the best response I have seen that I think could maybe lead to a solution to a lot of problems.
It's not that PvP and PvE need to be separated more, because they really shouldn't be separated at all and at one time they weren't. It is the community itself that has created the separation.
The reason we have the spells that are not OP in PvE but are in PvP is because the NPCs are stronger. KI has responded to many of the PvE community for harder bosses and bigger challenges. KI gave us just that and the spells to go with them. The effects between one aspect of the game and the other has created a very wide rift.
The community needs to come back together and agree that the only way to fix this it to fix the wider margins in PvE and bring them back down to scale with the forefront to bring the game itself and PvP back into prospective....
The jump from DS to CL was not a major one to a degree but I do think that some of the problems started when too many cheating bosses were being added all at once.
WT, I have to be honest here. I loved it. I actually soloed most of it with both legendaries and currently have a lvl 61 balance there that has soloed to her current position as well.
From CL to ZF, the rift got wider. Now we have Avalon, which I cannot truthfully comment on as both of my Legendaries are still in ZF. But with Avalon, we also got new utility spells. In this process we got one for life that has caused the biggest rift ever between both sides of the community.
Now I have to back up and take a look at this again, because I have had some time over the last day or so to do this. I know that there will probably be many that won't agree with me, but I have to say this anyway as a life wizard and for the fact that I have wizards in 6 of the 7 schools between 2 accounts. I have to look at it from the PvP point of view as if I were to take one of my wizards back to the PvP arena. I have to say that with all due respect, Guardian Spirit is OP in it's original state for PvP. It is also my opinion that maybe this spell should not have made it to live game just yet. Maybe a couple of more worlds on down the road would have been better for all concerned. But even then, I think it should also be a NO PvP.
I would like to apologize to all for taking any part in the debates over the nerfing of GS. I intend to step back and try to look at all aspects from both sides.
I would also like to ask the Wizarding community to step in and help with some solutions and suggestions for KI to bring the entire communtiy back together and make the game work for both PvE and PvP. Wizard101 is an awesome game and we need to fix this from our side as well. And this means that the main story line bosses also need to be scaled back down in keeping with what we had and progress on an even keel. KI can't do it without some ideas from us.......
QBB brought up an interesting subject, something that many seem to be very annoyed with.
"Why is PVE subservient to PVP."
A secondary item that may add to this ignominious feeling, is the fact that many in PVP feel superior to those that do not PVP. No question that a higher Ranking adds to one being lulled into the concept they hold a measureable set of articulated skills on other players.
After rereading the postings, especially those by posted by QBB and Megan, it's clear this is certainly not true.
The question still remains, is PVE subservient to PVP. I do believe the answer is yes, and that it shall remain that way. Here are the reasons why I feel that is the case, and KI may unfortunately have no choice at this point.
(Some statements are directly from my Dad). First, KI like any company has limited resources, and has a predefined plan and deadlines to attain. Example, the next world after Avalon, already has a few details released.
Second, it is very difficult for any Gamer company to change the main structure of their program. This is not only cost ineffective, but generates a whole new set of issues to deal with.
Third, Programming out the new bugs is very time consuming, and I would expect that few Managers/CEO’s would allow a major revamp, Without being able to prove the roi (return on investment).
Fourth, KI is moving on to new games, which means that most likely any excess resources will be moved into the expansion area.
Fifth, (my opinion), PVP needs to stay balanced, as it would be so unfair to allow it to be unplayable for any Wizard. Even if it nerfs a few spells along the way, PVP has to stay balanced to be fair.
Sixth, (again my opinion) the nerfing of spells has little effect on PVE, and I really believe this to be true. I know that many don’t like it, but I know this is the case based on my own PVE experience. Has my Life reached Level 72, no, but he’s close, all the other 5 have attained 72 or are at Level 80. I can go on with this, but I’m sure the idea is already there, that I am trying to make.
Things change, even for me, as I now leave June 22nd for my summer work (unexpected, as I was hoping to be home until late August, but that’s life). The next two weeks will be intense, and I will have very limited time for anything else. So this will be my last posting (except a goodbye posting in the PVP section). I wish the best for the Spiral and everyone in it. Thanks for all the replies, and wishing all the very best for you.
Joe. Joseph Lionhunter.
i am hurt joe. hurt to hear that you do think that pvp players should be alowed to call the shots for the game and spit on pve players. pvp and pve can not co exist much longer we are getting to powerful why cant you see that. enemies in avalon have up to 4000 hp and thats just the mobs. i can handle it and so can others but the majority cant do it as easy. if enemy hp block critical are increasing at the speed we are seeing now then we will need a jump in power but Ki cant do that because pvp matches could probaly end in about 5 rounds. do you see how they cant co exist without one drowning the other. pvp is great and all but its the one doing the drowning. joe the enemy is gaining power. so should we.
QBB brought up an interesting subject, something that many seem to be very annoyed with.
"Why is PVE subservient to PVP."
A secondary item that may add to this ignominious feeling, is the fact that many in PVP feel superior to those that do not PVP. No question that a higher Ranking adds to one being lulled into the concept they hold a measureable set of articulated skills on other players.
After rereading the postings, especially those by posted by QBB and Megan, it's clear this is certainly not true.
The question still remains, is PVE subservient to PVP. I do believe the answer is yes, and that it shall remain that way. Here are the reasons why I feel that is the case, and KI may unfortunately have no choice at this point.
(Some statements are directly from my Dad). First, KI like any company has limited resources, and has a predefined plan and deadlines to attain. Example, the next world after Avalon, already has a few details released.
Second, it is very difficult for any Gamer company to change the main structure of their program. This is not only cost ineffective, but generates a whole new set of issues to deal with.
Third, Programming out the new bugs is very time consuming, and I would expect that few Managers/CEO’s would allow a major revamp, Without being able to prove the roi (return on investment).
Fourth, KI is moving on to new games, which means that most likely any excess resources will be moved into the expansion area.
Fifth, (my opinion), PVP needs to stay balanced, as it would be so unfair to allow it to be unplayable for any Wizard. Even if it nerfs a few spells along the way, PVP has to stay balanced to be fair.
Sixth, (again my opinion) the nerfing of spells has little effect on PVE, and I really believe this to be true. I know that many don’t like it, but I know this is the case based on my own PVE experience. Has my Life reached Level 72, no, but he’s close, all the other 5 have attained 72 or are at Level 80. I can go on with this, but I’m sure the idea is already there, that I am trying to make.
Things change, even for me, as I now leave June 22nd for my summer work (unexpected, as I was hoping to be home until late August, but that’s life). The next two weeks will be intense, and I will have very limited time for anything else. So this will be my last posting (except a goodbye posting in the PVP section). I wish the best for the Spiral and everyone in it. Thanks for all the replies, and wishing all the very best for you.
Joe. Joseph Lionhunter.
btw has anyone even seen the pvp forums go balistic like this before because if many of you say no then that means pvp and pve need to be saprated for sure
QBB brought up an interesting subject, something that many seem to be very annoyed with.
"Why is PVE subservient to PVP."
A secondary item that may add to this ignominious feeling, is the fact that many in PVP feel superior to those that do not PVP. No question that a higher Ranking adds to one being lulled into the concept they hold a measureable set of articulated skills on other players.
After rereading the postings, especially those by posted by QBB and Megan, it's clear this is certainly not true.
The question still remains, is PVE subservient to PVP. I do believe the answer is yes, and that it shall remain that way. Here are the reasons why I feel that is the case, and KI may unfortunately have no choice at this point.
(Some statements are directly from my Dad). First, KI like any company has limited resources, and has a predefined plan and deadlines to attain. Example, the next world after Avalon, already has a few details released.
Second, it is very difficult for any Gamer company to change the main structure of their program. This is not only cost ineffective, but generates a whole new set of issues to deal with.
Third, Programming out the new bugs is very time consuming, and I would expect that few Managers/CEO’s would allow a major revamp, Without being able to prove the roi (return on investment).
Fourth, KI is moving on to new games, which means that most likely any excess resources will be moved into the expansion area.
Fifth, (my opinion), PVP needs to stay balanced, as it would be so unfair to allow it to be unplayable for any Wizard. Even if it nerfs a few spells along the way, PVP has to stay balanced to be fair.
Sixth, (again my opinion) the nerfing of spells has little effect on PVE, and I really believe this to be true. I know that many don’t like it, but I know this is the case based on my own PVE experience. Has my Life reached Level 72, no, but he’s close, all the other 5 have attained 72 or are at Level 80. I can go on with this, but I’m sure the idea is already there, that I am trying to make.
Things change, even for me, as I now leave June 22nd for my summer work (unexpected, as I was hoping to be home until late August, but that’s life). The next two weeks will be intense, and I will have very limited time for anything else. So this will be my last posting (except a goodbye posting in the PVP section). I wish the best for the Spiral and everyone in it. Thanks for all the replies, and wishing all the very best for you.
Joe. Joseph Lionhunter.
ive posted 3 times now but joe if you could can you put a link to where you got the info on the next world from or just explain it on the forums
