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It's become common practice for low level PvP'ers to bypass the Level 58 restriction on Gargantuan at point of sale. They can get Gargantuan in many different ways - the easiest being just to be there for the drop or to garden Sunions. The restriction on buying Gargantuan has been there since Gargantuan TCs came out, so it's pretty unambiguous that there was meant to be a Level 58 restriction on Gargantuan TCs.

Even at Level 5, when you slap a Gargantuan on a 1 pip spell, that's half way to demolishing a normal health same-level opponent.

When low level PvP problems surfaced in the past, KI would put No PvP on the TC. Obviously, with Gargantuan, this can't be done (or at least I hope it won't get done that way). High levels have been paying the price of exploitation in low level PvP because high levels (who are at the right level or beyond the right level) cannot use these No PvP TCs in PvP if they want. For instance, I specifically got the Myth Amulet to use Talos on my Death in PvP, but then because of low level PvP exploitation of the Talos TC, my high level Death cannot use Talos TC. So, I definitely do not want Gargantuan and Colossal TC to be No PvP.

No, what I want is for KI to implement a smarter system, one that catches all the loopholes that PvP'ers use to obtain restricted TCs to use on their low level characters for PvP. The best way to do that is to put a level restriction on the TC (or pet card) itself so that a wizard cannot use the TC if not at the right level. So, if a low level PvP'er bypasses the point of sale restriction at the bazaar and at vendors, then even if Gargantuan TC comes down as a drop in a hoard pack, it can't be used by a Level 5 wizard. The same principle could be applied for other TCs that are now labeled No PvP (with the exception of the double dispels - those should be No PvP).

What about the low levels who have achieved Grandmaster Artisan, and is able to craft them? They have certainly earned the right to use them. If you take it away from them, how is that being fair?

PlayHard101 on Oct 9, 2015 wrote:

They have a level restriction for a reason.
It is clearly fair, because crafting it is considered a loophole.
The only reason if you ever find a low level PVP wizard wearing the "Grandmaster Artisan" badge is probably because they intend to use this loophole to their advantage.
Okay. Lets give an example.
I'm a level 10 ice wizard with 1300 health.
I'm up against a storm wizard with 900 health.
The ice tries to become a hitter - He starts by using ice bird which gives a 40% blade. He starts stacking blades/traps up.
Most PVP people PVP with the Tanglewood Terror wand, or the Duelist Wand for 10+. All they have to do is -
They blade first turn.
Second turn - They use infallible, trying to make sure they don't fizzle and want to essentially cut off 15% of your resist. Most ices PVP with about 20-30% resist, so this cuts about half of it.
Then? They Catch of the Day, Gargantuan/Colossal enchanted, of course. That does 900-1000 at BASE.
Not to mention their blade, and cutting of your resist does about 1035-1150 at BASE. Then they can, Gargantuan a Thunder Snake and do 300 damage. See what our eyes?
Gargantuan was restricted the bazaar, so it should be restricted from PVP.
For the 3rd age, I have probably made MULTIPLE PvP wizards trying to get them to Warlord. I got as close as veteran, but I end up rage quitting. (Perhaps we can 2v2 together?)
Those are BTW:
Justin Skull, never got higher than Sergeant. Level 5 death Wizard
Blaze HawkHunter: Got Veteran. Level 10 Fire
Samuel DarkRider: Honestly, This was just embarassing :( Level 10 Death Wizard. (I did get 2nd place in a Quick Match 1v1 thou :D)
Cya!
PlayHard

So according to your logic (or lack thereof), anyone who uses crafted gargantuans is exploiting a loophole? I guess the same is said for the people who spend real money to buy sunions for the colossal/garg drops? The answer is an indisputable no. These are not loopholes. They are allowed, and intended. Mmorpog's exist because of money/profit, like it or not. People who invest time, and money in these games, are what allows them to succeed. I seriously doubt KI would ever curtail activity such as this because it generates them revenue. The biggest flaw to your argument though, is there is nothing unfair about it. You can use the same time/money to gain these advantages for yourself, yet you choose to simply complain about others who use it instead. How sad is that? It would only be unfair if you could not use these tactics for yourself, but you can, and choose not to.

DylanLionEyes on Oct 10, 2015 wrote:

Yep, these are loopholes ---> in other words, these are exploits because you're trying to get around a level locked restriction. Just because KI hasn't gotten around to it doesn't mean they won't in the future.

For example, TC Polymorphs were made No PvP at point of sale, but people continued to craft them and use them in low level PvP. People bought crown gear or pets that had Polymorph cards and used them in Level 5 PvP. People also gardened and got TCs without the No PvP symbol on them. People also used TC Polymorph that had dropped before that didn't have the No PvP symbol.

Well, guess what? KI later fixed all of that. Now all of those options are closed and every TC Polymorph or gear Polymorph card you get cannot be used in PvP. The only way you can use Polymorph spell is if you go and train the spell.

That's perhaps a solution for Gargantuan, that you can't use it unless you trained the spell --- but that would be harsh for higher levels who are above Level 58 and just had bad training point selection. The better solution would be to close all the loopholes and level restrict the TC Gargantuan so that no character under Level 58 can use the TC Gargantuan, no matter where the character got it.

So I don't see that as limiting a Grandmaster Artisan's ability to craft Gargantuan. Your low level wiz can still do that, but just can't use the TC until Level 58. Your Gardener can still garden Sunions and get Colossal etc., but just won't be able to use it if not at level 58 or above.

Wrong. Allowing crafters to use gargantuans they have achieved/unlocked through crafting is intended. KI coded them for use; they did not remove the level restriction by accident or glitch. The level restriction on these cards are missing from them because they intended it. You may not like it, but that is a fact, not an opinion. It is certainly possible that KI may restrict them at some point as you suggest however, but I am doubtful of this as it would be a knife in the back to all customers who spent real money to have these. You certainly have the right not to like it, or lobby against it, but stating that it's a loophole is a complete falsehood.

Intrepidatius on Oct 11, 2015 wrote:

Wrong. Allowing crafters to use gargantuans they have achieved/unlocked through crafting is intended. KI coded them for use; they did not remove the level restriction by accident or glitch. The level restriction on these cards are missing from them because they intended it. You may not like it, but that is a fact, not an opinion. It is certainly possible that KI may restrict them at some point as you suggest however, but I am doubtful of this as it would be a knife in the back to all customers who spent real money to have these. You certainly have the right not to like it, or lobby against it, but stating that it's a loophole is a complete falsehood.

You can't claim he is wrong, because he is right in his argument.
If KI wanted everyone to use Gargantuan, they would've taken off the level restriction.
I'm gonna ask you a question. Have you ever done low level PVP? The time when you reply, answer the question.\
If you can't, then do PVP without Gargantuan and see how easy it is.
Me and Dylan have. Believe me, there are many difficulties.
All of these are obviously opinions, (even yours) which is hypocritical. It is our opinion to put level restrictions.
Most people did not like it when the healing current may cast rate was decreased (including me) because a lot of people used it. Kingsisle nerfed it for a reason.
They banned Talos from PvP for a reason. They banned the level 84 star spells from PvP too.
All of this ties up together that KI will eventually ban Gargantuan from low level PvP.
These are tricks in the book that must be closed.

@Starz:
This thread has nothing to do with Lore spells. Second of all, you have to complete Zafaria quest in order to get Legendary Artisan, so there is only one way, so it can't be a loophole.

Well I agree, and disagree. I would like to see gargs, colossal, and the rest go away because I think it takes away from real skill, so I agree with those sentiments. The suggestion that it is an exploit however is laughable. This is clearly a defined action by KI, and anyone who suggests otherwise is either ill-informed, or simply lying.

Intrepidatius on Oct 13, 2015 wrote:

You are wrong as well. I have no problem with you stating an opinion to get rid of gargantuans at low level. The problem I have is both of you stating/agreeing it is a loophole/exploit, when it is not. This is intended by KI. I have also stated nothing that is hypocritical. It is not my fault you cannot comprehend the argument. Allow me to clarify this for you both, one last time:
1) Grandmaster Artisians who can craft Gargantuans to use, and people who get them from packs, drops, farming, etc. who are able to use them, is intended by KI. It is not an exploit/loophole.
2) My pvp skills at low level are NOT dependent on Gargantuans. I succeed with skill. There is a reason I am ranked high on the leaderboards, and it has nothing to do with gargantuan treasure cards.
3) I agree that at some point that KI may decide to restrict usage of such cards, but restricting or banning a card doesn't make it a loophole/exploit.

Understand now? Champion a preference all you want, but stating such obvious falsehoods does not help your cause, it does quite the reverse.

Neither me or Dylan are wrong. Perhaps you are not listening.
"There is a reason why I am ranked high on the leaderboards:"
Tell me what your wizard name and school and level.
Perhaps we could 1v1, and you can't use Gargantuan TC as I will be watching for enchantments on your wizard on my other wizard to make sure that you aren't hypocritical.

First of all, when KI put a level 58+ restriction on Gargantuan, they made it so that under 58 can't get it. What do you think they did?
"Oh, I am gonna put a level restriction on Gargantuan, but I'm gonna let the people who get it in PVP use it."
No, that isn't how it works.
If there is another way to get these restricted items, its a loophole.
Why would Grandmaster Artisans be at level 5-12? I don't know?
Oh! Perhaps Gargantuan!
Sure we are not using it cause it is unfair.
You think that Gargantuan was intended for KI to make sure levels 1-12 to get their hands on Gargantuan? Ridiculous.
I'm calling Ambrose in on his opinion. I am not stating any falsehoods. I
You said MMORPGs are full in on profit, even though they have done things to even out the playing field.
So, that is a falsehood by you, Mr. Intrepidatius.

PlayHard101 on Oct 13, 2015 wrote:

Neither me or Dylan are wrong. Perhaps you are not listening.
"There is a reason why I am ranked high on the leaderboards:"
Tell me what your wizard name and school and level.
Perhaps we could 1v1, and you can't use Gargantuan TC as I will be watching for enchantments on your wizard on my other wizard to make sure that you aren't hypocritical.

First of all, when KI put a level 58+ restriction on Gargantuan, they made it so that under 58 can't get it. What do you think they did?
"Oh, I am gonna put a level restriction on Gargantuan, but I'm gonna let the people who get it in PVP use it."
No, that isn't how it works.
If there is another way to get these restricted items, its a loophole.
Why would Grandmaster Artisans be at level 5-12? I don't know?
Oh! Perhaps Gargantuan!
Sure we are not using it cause it is unfair.
You think that Gargantuan was intended for KI to make sure levels 1-12 to get their hands on Gargantuan? Ridiculous.
I'm calling Ambrose in on his opinion. I am not stating any falsehoods. I
You said MMORPGs are full in on profit, even though they have done things to even out the playing field.
So, that is a falsehood by you, Mr. Intrepidatius.

Dude you need to take a chill pill. Everyone who reads this thread understands that both of you don't like gargantuans for whatever reason. What you both seem to not understand is that this not an exploit, glitch, loophole, hack, etc. KI made these cards available, and for use in a variety of ways by a conscious decision. We understand you don't like that decision, and you want to change it. We get that. As I stated previously though, to suggest that it is a loophole, when proof has already been presented that it is a conscious effort by KI, is simply laughable. So by all means, launch a tirade against gargantuans. I will even support that cause. But like it, or not, for anyone to say it is a "loophole", is indeed a false statement.