ill just say there are many that would agree with me no matter what you say its being abused and if all I mentioned are utility spells, isn't bad juju one? why only that to spam? and unlike balance their loremaster is only minus 25 along with a minimal accuracy debuff which is tolerable because you don't waste an entire hit also it costs more pips than a bad juju. as for doom being bad juju, that was not what I meant. what I meant was its the same amount of pips basically as a bad juju. and yes it is for weakening heals which other class you see has that advantage on people who like to heal a lot? yes your specialty is drain your just stating what I already specified so you have many options at strategizing. however spamming bad juju is just poor and unprofessional abuse, which takes to effort and leaves the other person struggling beyond their schools abilities.
As to if I am mad about the drains no, once again im saying you also have that advantage so your not at a large DISADVANTAGE as you spoke of. when storms hit do we heal? no when ice hits do they heal? no see where I AM getting at? beguiled being nerfed I did not know about, ill have to clearify that but its still a very useful spell that most death wizards even the juju spammers take advantage of which is ok. and empowering just to get a decent move as you may not have had enough pips to do what you needed in the first place so that's also incorrect which you stated. I do have a death wizard however hes still below one hundred because I am a storm lover from the start of the game and I haven't had time to put more time into him.
Me stating " so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option." was just facts you do have other options you just find BAD JUJU the easiest. its never easy for any school up until now, every school had to perfect or use different strategies to accomplish what they want with exception death which now does that for a easy way out.I have no issue with the community
How many that agreed with you actually do death offensive pvp and got to warlord?
And if you think I have a problem with the community, ask the community if they have a problem with juju spammers and lets hear what they have to think OVERALL. there are many spells that are too op but they are counterable however theres is no logical way to counter endless juju spamming without running out of pips, cards and basically wasting necessary hits. you are just a protagonist who is probably a user of it so you have no other option but to be the ambassador in protecting such a spell abuse from being nerfed EVEN though you know it is being abused in an unprofessional manner. It doesn't take much for people to see that either but its a open board and community so we are free to share our opinions.
If there is no logical way to counter bad juju how I and many warlord beating them then?O that’s right with strategy and skill. Players like you forget infections and doom? Which isn’t exclusive to death school.It’s so bad that offensive players don’t even heal anymore unless you’re life or Balance.Why because they refuse to wear the life amulets because they have mass damage going at them that they can’t possibly heal off without critical. Which most matches are just strictly spamming hits. The same ones saying Offensive deaths have the tools to win in 1v1 consistently because you seen it, which can be said about facing jade juju because I seen it and I have done it from first and second.
Who fault is it that they aren’t ready to engage jade players and have such a no brainer/one track playing style? I also play max offensive ice, storm and life. My strategy is multiversal. So if I face a juju I’m not just spamming letting them just heal off damage and complaining about it. I’m cutting off their healing, cornering them with balance dispels and keeping pressure.
Just saying not like you don’t have the tools to counter the strategy. Ki even did us a solid by even taking away the enchantment duplications. What more do you actually want? (Video link removed as it is against The Rules ~Dworgyn) This shows my friend beating a bad juju spammer from second. Which he played smart. Also this isn’t his from jade juju win either.
ill just say there are many that would agree with me no matter what you say its being abused and if all I mentioned are utility spells, isn't bad juju one? why only that to spam? and unlike balance their loremaster is only minus 25 along with a minimal accuracy debuff which is tolerable because you don't waste an entire hit also it costs more pips than a bad juju. as for doom being bad juju, that was not what I meant. what I meant was its the same amount of pips basically as a bad juju. and yes it is for weakening heals which other class you see has that advantage on people who like to heal a lot? yes your specialty is drain your just stating what I already specified so you have many options at strategizing. however spamming bad juju is just poor and unprofessional abuse, which takes to effort and leaves the other person struggling beyond their schools abilities.
As to if I am mad about the drains no, once again im saying you also have that advantage so your not at a large DISADVANTAGE as you spoke of. when storms hit do we heal? no when ice hits do they heal? no see where I AM getting at? beguiled being nerfed I did not know about, ill have to clearify that but its still a very useful spell that most death wizards even the juju spammers take advantage of which is ok. and empowering just to get a decent move as you may not have had enough pips to do what you needed in the first place so that's also incorrect which you stated. I do have a death wizard however hes still below one hundred because I am a storm lover from the start of the game and I haven't had time to put more time into him.
Me stating " so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option." was just facts you do have other options you just find BAD JUJU the easiest. its never easy for any school up until now, every school had to perfect or use different strategies to accomplish what they want with exception death which now does that for a easy way out.I have no issue with the community
"when storms hit do we heal? no when ice hits do they heal? no see where I AM getting at?"
No I don't, because you're also not seeing where I'm getting at. Like I said, it wasn't our choice or decision to make which features/characteristics each school should have, we're not the developers. Had the Storm school gotten drain spells you wouldn't even be complaining right now. Storm has HIGH damage, HIGH pierce and HIGH critical to counter their low health and resist, not to mention the powerful hits they have (except for the chance-based ones of course). Ice is literally a mini boss themselves, look at their high health (8000 at max) and high resist, do they really need drain spells when they can absorb so many hits far better than every other school and almost always be the last one standing in every match? If every school had the ability to drain, what's the point of having schools when they're so similar to each other? Besides, you do know that drains don't even heal us for much in PvP because others have resist (they're not like bosses who have no resist or can only resist to their opposite school) and they can shield/shield stack. If we were talking about PvE, then you'd be right. BUT people have resist from their gears and even equip ward pets nowadays. However, if we do blade stack + the opponent is open for hits + we critical, then we'd do TONS and heal for lots, but that scenario hardly ever happens.
You don't need to clarify whether Beguile has been nerfed because it was nerfed. I would know so because I'm a Death.And AGAIN, you're generalizing every Death into the Juju spammer category. I'm a Death wizard myself and I've never taken the easy way out. Do people just think all of us want or feel the need to Juju spam? That's just assuming things, that's not stating facts.
And if you think I have a problem with the community, ask the community if they have a problem with juju spammers and lets hear what they have to think OVERALL. there are many spells that are too op but they are counterable however theres is no logical way to counter endless juju spamming without running out of pips, cards and basically wasting necessary hits. you are just a protagonist who is probably a user of it so you have no other option but to be the ambassador in protecting such a spell abuse from being nerfed EVEN though you know it is being abused in an unprofessional manner. It doesn't take much for people to see that either but its a open board and community so we are free to share our opinions.
Of course they have a problem with it! Even wakaflame and I do. Now you're just making me laugh.
"You are just a protagonist who is probably a user of it so you have no other option but to be the ambassador in protecting such a spell abuse from being nerfed EVEN though you know it is being abused in an unprofessional manner." Have you missed my posts saying I've only ever been a Death hitter, hence why my highest rank for 3rd Age was only Sergeant, and before I stopped for 4th Age I only got up to Corporal rank? If I were a Juju spammer, I would be boasting Warlord ranks both in 3rd and 4th Age, BUT I DON'T. Juju Jade isn't my style of play, I prefer to hit, thank you. If I really were protecting the spell abuse itself, then why did I already mention solutions for it in my previous post? Or did you just completely ignore that to attack me? I'm protecting Death wizards from people who constantly point fingers to them.
"It doesn't take much for people to see that either but its a open board and community so we are free to share our opinions." Then why tell me to not come here and state my opinions in your previous post? You're not making any sense. Again, how would you know? I've never been a Warlord before. Had I been a Juju spammer both in the past and present, shouldn't I be a Warlord by now? And you've completely missed my posts stating I don't do Ranked anymore. I just spectate Ranked matches, I only do Practice team PvP and tourneys.
You didn't read my previous posts correctly. I'm not defending the Juju spamming itself, I even started threads myself regarding the issue in and out of the Message Boards even on other sites like Central, so what you're saying is a complete joke. I'm defending my fellow Death wizards from people such as you who generalize every Death into that category, which is what you are doing right now. You're assuming that I'm a Juju spammer simply for stating my opinions. Tell me how that isn't prejudice/bias on its own?
ROFL. Nothing I've suggested nerfs Juju at all. My death wizards love and use juju with fantastic results. However, in a discussion titled Bad Juju Spam, folks are going to talk about the merits and complaints of this spell. And in such a discussion, successful work around solutions may come up, others may or may not agree with. However, I'm glad you mentioned jade gear. When Shadow Magic came out, it brought a successful workaround solution to neutralize jade gear. And yet folks still use jade gear, while others continue to complain. Storm Wizards have cleanse, so its not too a far stretch the spell gets evolved as a way to remove multiple negative minus to hit on the same wizard, or the entire team. Just as myth has earthquake, and its not a far leap to also evolve this spell to remove traps and minus to hit on a person's own team.
Thank you, Tyler! You've been the least biased one here. I appreciate your solutions!
People completely missed my point of why I was even here in the first place.
One - I am not blind, I've read what Lucas said and I very much saw the title. But Bad Juju is of relevance and is in relation to the Death school and Death wizards, so it shouldn't be a surprise if Death wizards come here to speak out on this matter. Two - Death being generalized too much into the Juju spammer category, even the non-Juju spammers who are completely innocent in this. *cough cough, points to me* Three - Death has already had many (very direct) nerfs in the past to their spells and that has contributed to its bad state in PvP. AND that's contributed to the emergence of the Juju Jade 'strategy' and the new waves of Juju spammers altogether. Four - A Juju-spamming friend of mine being labelled as a cheater and others making it sound as if he's immoral and plain out bad, even though he's a genuinely nice guy without the Jade gear and outside of the arena. Juju spamming is not cheating. Like someone already has said, it's very unethical and unprofessional. It's an abuse of power. If people want a perfect example of cheating, that is boosting and boosters, friends. Five - People are not questioning themselves of why the Juju spamming even started in the first place. In this case, I'm pointing out why, hence why I've been stating other things relating to the Death school. If the solution only fixes the Bad Juju issue, it won't fix the Death school overall and that would mean bad news for all of us.People will always find an abusive way of play, unless we have found a solution to getting every school to be on par. That's the reason why this Juju spamming emerged in the first place. Hence, why many Deaths have found being the weakest of the low tiers for a few years now was just too much and took this matter into their own hands, thus leading to the birth of the very unethical Juju 'strategy'.
If I truly am all for the Juju spamming, then why have I been quoting the word strategy when mentioning the Juju Jade 'strat'? Why am I getting mad for being generalized into the same unpleasant category as them?Why did I mention solutions? Why have I started Juju and Jade-related threads in the past (not just on the game's official site)? Perhaps it's because whenever Juju-related issues (even Death-related issues in general) are brought up, people completely steer away from their original post and why they even started the thread in the first place. They're not standing by what they have originally said and only directing their anger towards Juju spammers. They instead begin to direct their anger towards every Death wizard and the Death school as a whole. And it should be common sense to know and expect that if someone is talking about directly nerfing a spell of their school, of course players of that school would be out here to say what they have to say. If I started a thread myself talking about how (insert random school)'s (insert broken spell here) should be nerfed, then I should expect for wizards of that school to say something. I shouldn't be surprised too if my post comes off as biased and people give out arguments to defend against the biased things I have possibly said because after all I'm talking about how and why we should nerf a spell. If people don't want others to have an unpleasant first impression of them, be careful of how you compose yourself around the threads then. Yes, you have your opinions, but you should also be respectful of others who probably won't be standing by your beliefs.
I believe I've only wasted my time and effort giving out arguments on this matter to people who... 1) Won't even bother seeing things from a Death wizard's perspective 2) Are not exactly welcoming to Deaths in general and have a subconscious hatred for the Death school that they are oblivious to. 3) Generalizing every single one of us into that unpleasant category just because we're Deaths. 4) Labelling waka and I's opinions as irrelevant, incorrect and inaccurate simply because we're Death wizards, even though we're probably more experienced with the school than the people here, because we actually play the school and can see the good and bad, pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages, and strengths and weaknesses in Death, not just viewing it as the 'unethical school full of Juju spammers' everyone's making it out to be. 5) Did not expect for Death wizards to come here and speak out on this matter and doesn't welcome them either; even though Bad Juju's technically a Death spell, therefore it is of relevance and in relation to our school. 6) Assumes I'm one of them, or even worse an ambassador for the Juju spamming 'strategy' simply for just stating my opinions, even though I've already said numerous times before that I'm not, because I'm actually smart enough to anticipate such horrid things being assumed about me and cleared things out before people could even say it themselves. If people don't believe me, I can even prove it with solid evidence of my CORPORAL rank. If I were a Juju spammer, I'd be wayyyy more than a Corporal by now + I quit Ranked. 7) Believes there's only one side to an argument and no more than that. Just ONE. 8) Making it seem as if I'm the antagonist here just because I'm a Death wizard with an opinion that's not similar to yours.
I won't waste anymore time reading posts and speaking out on this very one-sided issue, so goodbye everyone. And good luck PvP-ing Lucas, hope you don't face any more Juju spammers. I genuinely mean it.
Also, people are forgetting that it's not only the Juju Jades that use the spell, the Death hitters use it too without the spamming aspect of course. And it's not only Death wizards who uses our spells, others can and does use them too. In the low-mid level PvP, there are non-Deaths with Death mastery amulets using Death spells. There are also Life, Ice and Balance Jades who uses Feints, Dark Pacts, Empowers, Bad Juju, Plague, Virulent, Doom and Infection TC. So stop making it seem as if those mentioned 'powerful' spells we have are not only exclusive to our school, people can obtain TC versions of them or even train it. (Not to mention that Ice has a ripped-off version of DK now.) Those spells aren't even helpful to us 80% of the time, they are and can only be used in certain scenarios and environments, otherwise you don't know what you're doing and talking about.
Lucas, had I been a , , , , or wizard defending Deaths and their school, would you still be saying I'm an ambassador for Juju spamming or is it only because you have an issue with Deaths stating their opinions on this?
Lastly, you guys have made it seem that we're fine or powerful as we are as Death hitters, but if that truly were the case, then shouldn't people be complaining about the Death school being broken and not be known for a utility spell but for their hits instead, like how Balance is notable for Lore?
Now I'm done giving out arguments for people who don't welcome me just because I'm a player of the school their spell issue is related to and aren't willing to see it from my perspective. Goodbye.
And thank you Sean (waka) for standing with me. It is a bit sad that it seems like you might actually have to be a Death wizard yourself to see things from a Death wizard's perspective on this matter and on similar threads such as this. Hope to catch you again someday in the arena! Maybe I'll introduce myself too and just say hi lol. And once I have introduced myself, you'll be my witness to my Corporal rank because I know some people will just say I'm lying about that.
I know I said i'm done on this thread but let me say this before I'm done for good on here. Their are more than one strategy for Death to get to warlord. No strategy is the best. Those who PVP on their Death wizard and achieved their Warlord rank proves me correct when I said Death is not a weak school in PVP or they heavily Bad Juju spammed their way up to that rank making the gameplay totally unfair for others to not have a bit of a chance to win that match also proves me correct. You guys can quote me on this post too if you want and ramble on perhaps speaking the last word for a win which will be a waste of time because I'm not going to read anymore arguments since the last time I post on here. All this kind of bickering and name calling is totally ridicules. I feel this thread needs to be locked up and perhaps a new one will be cleaner. Have a good day and enjoy.
/: I agree with this. If you think it's "balanced, or "fair" for someone to have about 90+ resist, constantly outheal and constantly juju your attack then you should really try pvp one day. Juju really shouldn't be allowed in pvp.
I know I said i'm done on this thread but let me say this before I'm done for good on here. Their are more than one strategy for Death to get to warlord. No strategy is the best. Those who PVP on their Death wizard and achieved their Warlord rank proves me correct when I said Death is not a weak school in PVP or they heavily Bad Juju spammed their way up to that rank making the gameplay totally unfair for others to not have a bit of a chance to win that match also proves me correct. You guys can quote me on this post too if you want and ramble on perhaps speaking the last word for a win which will be a waste of time because I'm not going to read anymore arguments since the last time I post on here. All this kind of bickering and name calling is totally ridicules. I feel this thread needs to be locked up and perhaps a new one will be cleaner. Have a good day and enjoy.
just how you said its ways to get death to warlord there are ways to beat bad juju spammers. You say its unfair? But undermine death offensive disadvantages as fair, which why I called ya bias. Like I and other warlords have beaten bad juju spammers from second and first. Its easy to be dismissive when you don't pvp death and this isn't the first time I saw you coming for death. You're claiming you only have problem with bad juju spammer but you in the past you posted a whole rant about death as a whole.
If there is no logical way to counter bad juju how I and many warlord beating them then?O that’s right with strategy and skill. Players like you forget infections and doom? Which isn’t exclusive to death school.It’s so bad that offensive players don’t even heal anymore unless you’re life or Balance.Why because they refuse to wear the life amulets because they have mass damage going at them that they can’t possibly heal off without critical. Which most matches are just strictly spamming hits. The same ones saying Offensive deaths have the tools to win in 1v1 consistently because you seen it, which can be said about facing jade juju because I seen it and I have done it from first and second.
Who fault is it that they aren’t ready to engage jade players and have such a no brainer/one track playing style? I also play max offensive ice, storm and life. My strategy is multiversal. So if I face a juju I’m not just spamming letting them just heal off damage and complaining about it. I’m cutting off their healing, cornering them with balance dispels and keeping pressure.
Just saying not like you don’t have the tools to counter the strategy. Ki even did us a solid by even taking away the enchantment duplications. What more do you actually want? (Video link removed as it is against The Rules ~Dworgyn) This shows my friend beating a bad juju spammer from second. Which he played smart. Also this isn’t his from jade juju win either.
you would have to know your fighting a bad juju first off to even stand a chance otherwise if you don't your at another disadvantage with unnecessary cards.
"when storms hit do we heal? no when ice hits do they heal? no see where I AM getting at?"
No I don't, because you're also not seeing where I'm getting at. Like I said, it wasn't our choice or decision to make which features/characteristics each school should have, we're not the developers. Had the Storm school gotten drain spells you wouldn't even be complaining right now. Storm has HIGH damage, HIGH pierce and HIGH critical to counter their low health and resist, not to mention the powerful hits they have (except for the chance-based ones of course). Ice is literally a mini boss themselves, look at their high health (8000 at max) and high resist, do they really need drain spells when they can absorb so many hits far better than every other school and almost always be the last one standing in every match? If every school had the ability to drain, what's the point of having schools when they're so similar to each other? Besides, you do know that drains don't even heal us for much in PvP because others have resist (they're not like bosses who have no resist or can only resist to their opposite school) and they can shield/shield stack. If we were talking about PvE, then you'd be right. BUT people have resist from their gears and even equip ward pets nowadays. However, if we do blade stack + the opponent is open for hits + we critical, then we'd do TONS and heal for lots, but that scenario hardly ever happens.
You don't need to clarify whether Beguile has been nerfed because it was nerfed. I would know so because I'm a Death.And AGAIN, you're generalizing every Death into the Juju spammer category. I'm a Death wizard myself and I've never taken the easy way out. Do people just think all of us want or feel the need to Juju spam? That's just assuming things, that's not stating facts.
Point taken. and Thanks for clearifying that however just like you said each school is special but can always change to suit the conditions right? you said storm has high damage and pierce and critical. I have seen deaths with high damage, high pierce and even critical so whats your point there? as to drains not doing as much in pvp, it still hits and heals you that's a lot.
Of course they have a problem with it! Even wakaflame and I do. Now you're just making me laugh.
"You are just a protagonist who is probably a user of it so you have no other option but to be the ambassador in protecting such a spell abuse from being nerfed EVEN though you know it is being abused in an unprofessional manner." Have you missed my posts saying I've only ever been a Death hitter, hence why my highest rank for 3rd Age was only Sergeant, and before I stopped for 4th Age I only got up to Corporal rank? If I were a Juju spammer, I would be boasting Warlord ranks both in 3rd and 4th Age, BUT I DON'T. Juju Jade isn't my style of play, I prefer to hit, thank you. If I really were protecting the spell abuse itself, then why did I already mention solutions for it in my previous post? Or did you just completely ignore that to attack me? I'm protecting Death wizards from people who constantly point fingers to them.
"It doesn't take much for people to see that either but its a open board and community so we are free to share our opinions." Then why tell me to not come here and state my opinions in your previous post? You're not making any sense. Again, how would you know? I've never been a Warlord before. Had I been a Juju spammer both in the past and present, shouldn't I be a Warlord by now? And you've completely missed my posts stating I don't do Ranked anymore. I just spectate Ranked matches, I only do Practice team PvP and tourneys.
You didn't read my previous posts correctly. I'm not defending the Juju spamming itself, I even started threads myself regarding the issue in and out of the Message Boards even on other sites like Central, so what you're saying is a complete joke. I'm defending my fellow Death wizards from people such as you who generalize every Death into that category, which is what you are doing right now. You're assuming that I'm a Juju spammer simply for stating my opinions. Tell me how that isn't prejudice/bias on its own?
I never generalized all deaths as juju spammers, if so show me where I said this. I simply SAID that juju spammers, ( so if you think im generalizing all deaths I guess you must think all do this) is being abused these days. I NEVER asked to remove the spell nor have I said you weren't a death hitter( I never said you were juju spammer) however I did consolidate that you may be defending them. I simply said from my first post if you saw the last comment that the wizard team does a great job on keeping things balance as they did with the dispels however something must be done for bad juju( never asked for it to be removed.) hence a solution.Thank you
I believe I've only wasted my time and effort giving out arguments on this matter to people who... 1) Won't even bother seeing things from a Death wizard's perspective 2) Are not exactly welcoming to Deaths in general and have a subconscious hatred for the Death school that they are oblivious to. 3) Generalizing every single one of us into that unpleasant category just because we're Deaths. 4) Labelling waka and I's opinions as irrelevant, incorrect and inaccurate simply because we're Death wizards, even though we're probably more experienced with the school than the people here, because we actually play the school and can see the good and bad, pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages, and strengths and weaknesses in Death, not just viewing it as the 'unethical school full of Juju spammers' everyone's making it out to be. 5) Did not expect for Death wizards to come here and speak out on this matter and doesn't welcome them either; even though Bad Juju's technically a Death spell, therefore it is of relevance and in relation to our school. 6) Assumes I'm one of them, or even worse an ambassador for the Juju spamming 'strategy' simply for just stating my opinions, even though I've already said numerous times before that I'm not, because I'm actually smart enough to anticipate such horrid things being assumed about me and cleared things out before people could even say it themselves. If people don't believe me, I can even prove it with solid evidence of my CORPORAL rank. If I were a Juju spammer, I'd be wayyyy more than a Corporal by now + I quit Ranked. 7) Believes there's only one side to an argument and no more than that. Just ONE. 8) Making it seem as if I'm the antagonist here just because I'm a Death wizard with an opinion that's not similar to yours.
I won't waste anymore time reading posts and speaking out on this very one-sided issue, so goodbye everyone. And good luck PvP-ing Lucas, hope you don't face any more Juju spammers. I genuinely mean it.
Sigh, once again this is not directed to all deaths just the juju spammers I view it from a death perspective and I see many ways to win other than just spamming one spell. Fell free to think what you want of me, in the end I know that, a few know that, real persons know that. its being abused.
you would have to know your fighting a bad juju first off to even stand a chance otherwise if you don't your at another disadvantage with unnecessary cards.
This is completely false. I never had to set for a jade juju to beat them I just had the right cards in my deck. I make sure to have infections and dooms, while pressuring them with hit spams. My deck set up is created to combat hits and jades ( including life too)
Enchanted cards like cards don't make copies anymore so the key is to pressure them enough to use all their bad juju to make them rely on main deck which limits them to 10 or 8 depending on the deck. Also, most smart players use balance dispels to delay them and stop them from reshuffling. I carry 4 reshuffles which my strategy for the most kills in 2-3.
....Set your deck wisely and stop using such one track deck set ups
/: I agree with this. If you think it's "balanced, or "fair" for someone to have about 90+ resist, constantly outheal and constantly juju your attack then you should really try pvp one day. Juju really shouldn't be allowed in pvp.
So juju shouldn't be allowed because jades over use it? When offensive deaths can't use their own utility without hurting and sacrificing their blades but have other schools using them without a fraction of the risk? Also giving ice death's lore spell?
I'm all aboard for not having juju but you're essentially taking a tool from a school that's already struggling offensively, So is that fair?
Sigh, once again this is not directed to all deaths just the juju spammers I view it from a death perspective and I see many ways to win other than just spamming one spell. Fell free to think what you want of me, in the end I know that, a few know that, real persons know that. its being abused.
Thank you for that last comment it says ALOT.
Thank you!. Finally someones get's is right and understands why theirs a problem with Juju spamming.
and I haven't had time to put more time into him.
, 
, 
, 
, 
or 
wizard defending Deaths and their school, would you still be saying I'm an ambassador for Juju spamming or is it only because you have an issue with Deaths stating their opinions on this? 
