It doesn't seem to matter what lvl of PvP you do there are ALWAYS spells that are consistently spammed. These spells are well known and quite honestly ruin the fun in having a PvP battle as it is almost impossible to beat them if you go second, and are still horrible to deal with if you go first because more often than not the spam spells cause the battle to become overly long, frustrating, and boring. These spells should be limited for all schools. Being able to have 8 or so copies of a spells available in a deck is fine for PvE but is ridiculous to have in PvP. The whole point of PvP is to have a strategy to beat other players then try effectively use it against them. Constantly spamming things like Bad Juju or Loremaster so that your opponent can never actually make a real move is not a strategy, it is abuse of spells. So far I've seen people suggest things like lowering the amount of debuff the spell provides or banning the spells all together. In my opinion neither of those are really a good solution to the problem. Lowering the debuff does not stop the spamming and still makes it impossible to win a match if you go second. Getting rid of them completely isn't fair to the schools who these spells actually belong to as not all of them are obtainable by everyone. Instead these spells should simply have their own set limit of how many you can add to a deck for PvP only. By keeping the limit down to say 3 or 4 of spam spells like Loremaster it gives other wizards a chance to actually win a match by being smart enough to keep themselves alive until those spells are gone and they can figure out a way to get rid of the debuffs. It also forces players who currently just spam until they win to do actual PvP and come up with a real strategy to win against their opponents. For lower lvl PvP limits need to be set for shields. I recently went up against a player who only had 2 possibly 3 attacks in their whole deck, none of which could kill outright. He used so many shields and TC ice armor that I literally could not do any damage at all. His pet had summon clockwork minion as a card so he summoned it and let the minion attack with sandstorm until I was dead. The blatant abuse of shields is just as bad as loremaster spam. There is nothing you can do and no way to kill the minion when you are lvl 5 and it is 450 health and still be able to kill your opponent who has over 800 health with multiple shields and ice armor TC. There just aren't enough attacks in an apprentice deck for that. This strategy is not smart, it's just shy of cheating. It's not the player who beats their opponent it's the minion while they shield over and over again. Thus for lower lvl PvP there should be a limit to how many shields (or at the very least ice armor TC and absorb TC) you can take with you into battle so that an opponent actually has a chance at winning. I'm sure this has come up before I doubt it's an original idea but I'm putting it out there anyway as an option.
Sure, just ban every spell 4 pips and under, I mean why not, then you guys would have to find some other reason you can not win at PvP!
If you actually read the post or even the name of the post you can see that I did not say to ban the spells. I said to LIMITthem.
Even the other reply didn't say to ban them but to change the amount of pips that it takes to be able to use them. Can you even imagine what a low lvl PvP match would look like if I had the same amount of shield cards as the person in the match I described? It would have gone on forever with neither of us able to win because we would not have had any attacks able to take all our health, and even with a minion doing attacks every turn if you're that well shielded your talking about taking maybe 10 health from someone who has up to over 900 since with my current gear on that wizard I have 958.
It is much better to simply limit the amount of certain spells you are able to put in a deck during PvP. If you only have 3 or 4 of a spell that people currently spam in both high and low lvl PvP then you force PvP to become what it's actually supposed to be. A match where one person has to use their own strategy and adjust it as they go to try to defeat the person they are against. As it stands now spells that are constantly spammed like Bad Juju and Loremaster make that impossible. No amount of adjusting your strategy effectively counters the debuffs, especially when they are stacked on 5 or 6 times and you have the bad luck to go second in the match. If you win against someone who constantly spams these spells it's because of either insane luck or you had just enough luck to go first in the match rather than second.
Whether you win a match should not be wholly dependent on if you go first or not, and for the most part with spell spammers that is entirely what it comes down to.
Btw I could care less if I win all the time or not. I PvP purely to get tickets so I can buy mounts and tourneys give a good amount whether your're in first or last. I would just like PvP to be what it's meant to be strategy with some luck, not all luck and spam.
Decks do limit the number of spells you can put in a deck. What level are you trying to PvP at anyway?
Yes they limit them but not by a lot if the spell is for your school at max pvp. If you are a death wizard for example then with the best deck in the game for that school you can have up to 8 of the same death spell in your deck. Then there is tc on top of that to think of as well. By the time you're done loading up a deck you've got at minimum 8 bad juju spells and a possibility for a lot more if you decide to use tc bad juju.
This goes for other spam spells such as loremaster or spirit guardian too. If you are a life or a balance wizard you can have 8 or more of those spam spells depending on how much tc of those spells you want to have. Then there's the tc of spam spells like loremaster and bad juju to consider by themselves. At max level you have a sideboard of around 38 with the better decks. If you are a person who spams that gives you 38 different tc . Throw in a couple of reshuffles and you basically have someone impossible to take down unless you get REALLY lucky.
And this applies to all levels who are able to effectively use spam spells to ,well, spam. By the time you are high enough lvl to use these spells well, the sideboard of the deck is big enough to carry enough tc to ensure you will not lose to someone who is around your lvl (exceptions to this would be matches where do to low amount of players you're up against someone ten or so lvls higher than you).
At lower lvl this isn't quite as big a problem but if all you're packing is shields and no attacks because there is no limit on how many different shields you can have or shield tc you can have then you're in a never ending match if both wiz use this strategy. No one willing to lose their rank by fleeing and no one can win cuz they can't do any damage.
As for what lvl I pvp I don't see how that makes too much of a difference to a complaint that has been going on for years but I do max and lvl 5 right now. I have done others at different times in the game but right now those are the only 2 I'm doing.
Yes they limit them but not by a lot if the spell is for your school at max pvp. If you are a death wizard for example then with the best deck in the game for that school you can have up to 8 of the same death spell in your deck. Then there is tc on top of that to think of as well. By the time you're done loading up a deck you've got at minimum 8 bad juju spells and a possibility for a lot more if you decide to use tc bad juju.
This goes for other spam spells such as loremaster or spirit guardian too. If you are a life or a balance wizard you can have 8 or more of those spam spells depending on how much tc of those spells you want to have. Then there's the tc of spam spells like loremaster and bad juju to consider by themselves. At max level you have a sideboard of around 38 with the better decks. If you are a person who spams that gives you 38 different tc . Throw in a couple of reshuffles and you basically have someone impossible to take down unless you get REALLY lucky.
And this applies to all levels who are able to effectively use spam spells to ,well, spam. By the time you are high enough lvl to use these spells well, the sideboard of the deck is big enough to carry enough tc to ensure you will not lose to someone who is around your lvl (exceptions to this would be matches where do to low amount of players you're up against someone ten or so lvls higher than you).
At lower lvl this isn't quite as big a problem but if all you're packing is shields and no attacks because there is no limit on how many different shields you can have or shield tc you can have then you're in a never ending match if both wiz use this strategy. No one willing to lose their rank by fleeing and no one can win cuz they can't do any damage.
As for what lvl I pvp I don't see how that makes too much of a difference to a complaint that has been going on for years but I do max and lvl 5 right now. I have done others at different times in the game but right now those are the only 2 I'm doing.
Actually these spells aren't the problem its Jade and Shadow spells being allowed in pvp. For example you really think a hitter death can really spam juju? No its Jade gear and if they get rig of jade gear from pvp they should also change the spell to better fit an offensive death strategy. And Shadow spells such as shrike and 4,5,6 pip shadow hits make pvp too Rng. Its to the point if you're first and get a shadow or shadows before your opponent its literally a auto win. Even worst we can't dispel twice in a row which makes it way difficult to counter.
Actually these spells aren't the problem its Jade and Shadow spells being allowed in pvp. For example you really think a hitter death can really spam juju? No its Jade gear and if they get rig of jade gear from pvp they should also change the spell to better fit an offensive death strategy. And Shadow spells such as shrike and 4,5,6 pip shadow hits make pvp too Rng. Its to the point if you're first and get a shadow or shadows before your opponent its literally a auto win. Even worst we can't dispel twice in a row which makes it way difficult to counter.
While I do agree jade gear is a problem in pvp you can't disregard the spells that allow the jade gear to be so useful altogether besides the spells that give them shields (though when I say limit spam spells I believe these spells that provide shields fall under the spam category, they are overused and you shouldn't be able to have 8 or more of them in a deck).
An offensive death may not juju spam, but lets be honest here how many death players actually play offensive rather than getting jade gear and doing the spam technique? From my own experience I'd have to say not many. If you limit the spell it means jade gear or not spamming of bad juju can't happen.
I don't agree that other spam spells such as loremaster aren't a problem either. Most people don't have accuracy that is very high it's more of an after thought jewel to add to your deck with the main focus being getting pierce jewels. If you are constantly getting hit with an accuracy debuff and you have less than 35% accuracy then you are very likely to fizzle with a lot of the better spells, especially when playing storm or fire who have 70 or 75% accuracy on a lot of their spells.
As for shadow spells to a point you're right but banning shadow spells isn't the only answer. For one there are jewels you can add that increase your chance of getting a shadow pip. It might mean giving up some other jewels but if your whole strategy revolves around shadow spells it's probably worth it. Shadow spells could also just cost more pips for pvp only.
Maybe shrike is more of a problem than I've seen but for most part only school I've seen use that strategy you say is auto win successfully is storm, where as I've seen multiple schools loremaster spam for the win using many tc and even have seen other schools bad juju spam using tc for the win. That's why the spells should be limited to 3 or 4 of them total in the whole deck whether they are tc or the actual spell.
And who exactly gets to decide what is spam and what is not spam and how many of what everyone should have? Seems to me all players at the same level have the same limitations as to the number of spells they can pack in a deck, if you do not like the school you picked, there are 5 other slots!
And who exactly gets to decide what is spam and what is not spam and how many of what everyone should have? Seems to me all players at the same level have the same limitations as to the number of spells they can pack in a deck, if you do not like the school you picked, there are 5 other slots!
its wrong and ki knows this and wont fix the spam problem, or put a timer in the practice and rank so they cant play and get no where in battles to level up in rank
And who exactly gets to decide what is spam and what is not spam and how many of what everyone should have? Seems to me all players at the same level have the same limitations as to the number of spells they can pack in a deck, if you do not like the school you picked, there are 5 other slots!
I don't think anyone has to decide what is and isn't spam it's pretty obvious what spells are considered to be so otherwise no one would have known what I was talking about when I started this thread in the first place. KI would be who decides overall how many of each spam spell should be allowed in decks it is their game after all it's just my suggestion that it be limited down to three or four.
All players do not have the same limitations to the number of spells they can pack in a deck past the max number of total spells they can have in the deck as a whole. For starters not everyone has the same deck and different decks allow a different number of your school's spells. The best decks in the game allow you to put in 8 spells as long as they are your school. If they aren't part of your school you can only put in 5 of the same spell. That means people who like to spam can put in a significant amount more of spam spells if they are the same school. Not only do they get 8 copies in their decks they can have multiple tc of these spam spells as sideboards at max are around 38 cards and some are even 40.
It's harder to be a spell spammer if the max amount of spells for spam is 5 even if you have a mastery amulet (but not impossible I have seen it happen). That is not saying however that I don't like the school I picked or that spamming is okay, it's not. I'm honestly not even sure where you got that idea from since I never even said what schools I played. I actually play 2 of the schools known for their spamming and I don't do it because I think it is a way to cheat without being able to be held accountable for it. There are no limits to how much spam tc you can have in your deck and you get even more spam if you happen to be the same school as the spell thanks to allowance of 8 of it in the better decks available. Limits should be made so that people come up with an actual strategy to PvP. Bombarding your opponent with debuffs until they die is not a strategy.
No, but I wouldn't want my Storm to even be more at a disadvantage, especially if she's second from an Ice or Balance. It wouldn't be fair on schools with the lowest health.
Maybe don't limit any spells, ban reshuffle in pvp. If no one loses outright, highest health wins.
Not sure that would really make pvp any more fair. Banning reshuffle doesn't stop people from spamming spells. It would help since spammers would have to rely on tc versions of the spells they spam more than they do now but with sideboards that are 38 to 40 cards big that's still a lot of room to pack in spam tc. Even if you take into account wand hits that take up part of the sideboard you're looking at over 30 possible spam spells.
Highest health wins is a good idea but also has its draw backs. If you get say a juju jade spammer then highest health is not completely fair. You can do barely any damage while the juju spammer simply has to pile them on then hit you with 1 or 2 decent spells. By the time the match ends juju spammer still has an automatic win just like they pretty much do now since there's no way to counter them if you go second, and without limiting the spells they have plenty to spam.
Note juju spammer is just one example, I can think of a couple other instances where spam spells could allow an unfair win if all you do is put a time limit and ban reshuffle.
If pvp really wants to go back to what it's meant to be people using an actual strategy to defeat their opponent ( and by strategy I mean a general plan that a person has that can change and adapt as needed to win a battle, something spamming does Not do) then spamming needs to be ended altogether.
If you take away spamming then it becomes much easier to defeat even opponents with jade gear, another thing that really shouldn't be allowed in pvp. But part of what makes jade gear so effective is spam. You can eventually chip away at someone with high resistance if you are not dealing with spam debuffs and spam shields that jade players frequently use. (battle might still be long but at least without spam such as juju you would have a chance at winning)
that is why I say they need to set timer for practice and rank, set it so they have 20 minutes , or 45 minutes, that way the game don't linger on for hours like some do
I am a level 125 Balance Wizard with flexible (and formidable) stats.
I will admit to being slightly annoyed to being defeated twice by a level 100 Warlord Balance Wizard, who seemed to almost exclusively use Loremaster. I use Loremaster myself, and at four pips am not sure it really counts as a "spam" spell. But I try to use a variety of attacks, partially to be flexible, partly because it is boring, but also because I don't want to be accused of being a Lore spammer.
But with his crafted deck, I can certainly see how casting lots of Lore would be an attractive strategy for him.
I agree but it is also possible to win. On my balance wizard I use lore quite a bit however i've still had quite a few people beat me because the buffs aren't very high and especially in a quick match where damage increases. I'd honestly much rather use real strategies but because spamming seems to be the only way to win now that's sadly what most people have resorted to going with for strategy themselves. Most of the times I have placed multiple lores and black mantles the other person seems to usually not fizzle surprisingly lol. If all were classic matches like they used to be then spamming wouldn't be prevalent anymore except maybe with storm. Every time new ways of creating more stats (critical, jewels, pets) are created it makes pvp a whole lot more complicated, and while they are great for pve I wish pvp stayed more classic
The only suggestion I have is to try more 1v1 matches because people can't keep spamming jujus and whatever else forever and eventually have to hit. It's more problematic in 2v2+ where one person is spamming debuffs while the rest hits. Also cleanse charm tc
Jack Legend
