Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Ben "Ratbeard" Durbin, Lead Designer on Wizard101, shares a whole bunch of details on the insight around balancing the Matchmaking and related PvP systems. Have a read:
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
I must say, these dev dairies that you guys have been producing are excellent. They are well written and seems to answer most of our pertinent questions!
Spells
Now, PvP has been plagued with problems. I noticed however that limited was said about spells. Many of us were for example very confused to see Guardian Spirit brought back to PvP after the initial ban on it.
Diego
In terms of Setting, Stalling and Boosting. Personally, I would want to see these deceptive techniques completely eradicated from PvP. If players are still guilty of such actions, they should be punished (loss of rank for example which is why I am leaning more towards Diego being of the mindset of favoring aggressive play).
But, currently Diego's decisions have been, controversial, especially in team PvP. Jades for example use Wings of Fate as a means of "attack" just to get the 'win' by Diego.
Critical Heal/Nerf
Ratbeard, please note, as it currently stands, this nerf to critical heals found its way in PvE. We are requesting that this nerf be reversed.
Match Limit
Honestly, the long hour matches do get gruesome. So, I am in support of a time limit. But, it must be noted though that as you rightfully hinted with Ice, they prioritize resistance, hence, it won't necessarily be easy to defeat opponents within said time all the time. Ice is hard enough to defeat as it is. But a limit does improve the current state of PvP especially as it relates to stalling quite a bit.
Pets
You made no mention of pets. Will may cast talents be toned down? Or even looked at?
Matchmaking
In terms of the time limit on matchmaking. This also has a lot to deal with the amount of players within the que. Match times are usually shorter at certain time of the day than others.
Also, there have been several inconsistencies as it relates to players unfairly being matched against players who are of several levels above or rank.
Going Forward
While the changes proposed do hold much promise, an issue in PvP still remains with some of the spells still allowed, the amount allowed and even to some extent, pet talents. These aspects cannot be ignored if the intention is to create a new age with very limited issues.
Thank-you for listening and finally beginning to address PvP.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Matches could do well with a slightly higher time limit but as it stands its not too bad. Id say that the biggest issue nowadays is life being crippled as a school due to the healing nerfs in pvp, I have a few suggestions on that in another post and Id appreciate you checking it out. And also the Pve life nerf hurting the schools only unique quality in pve. Reverting the crit nerf for pve would be a great change going forward.
Another critique of mine is the pvp chat update. All it did was make one sided communication for spectators a thing and completely cut of chat between friends. Id say just revert everything and make the current chat system an option. Its always been enjoyable talking to opponents and friends and making something like that in possible is not the direction to go.
Other than these issues I havent found much of an issue with the updates and have really enjoyed them. Thank you for the effort you put into the game.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Let me start by saying I like that there is some transparency now. This is something we've needed for a while. Thank you KI for leveling with us on some of the changes that are being implemented and your thought process behind said changes.
My main issue is with certain schools.
- Myth has essentially become undefeatable. Unless you plan on filling your deck with Aegis and set shields (which isn't practical), while spamming this the entire match, you don't stand much of a chance against Myth. When you have two OP spells, such as Mystic Colossus and Minotaur that go around shields (for the most part), there's no decent way to counter damage. Add to that Scion (which also can't be countered), you've lost instantly. Your cards don't always (and typically don't) fall the way you need them to. You cannot rely on Aegis and set shields to counter these OP spells.
- Storm needed a buff on HP but also needed a nerf on damage to balance out the difference. Instead, Storm remains super strong with plentiful HP. They also have a 2 pip OP cheat spell (Insane Bolt) that no other school has. I (somewhat) understand the idea behind this spell before the HP buff was implemented, but now, it doesn't make sense to have such a strong spell that goes around set shields. Wild Bolt is also random, nonsensical, RNG luck game play that has no place in a (supposedly) balanced system. Out of all of the Storm spells, these two spells need to be nerfed in a major way. Storm Scion is strong, but it has a decent counter with blades, unlike Myth Scion which can't be countered at all.
- Fire has been nerfed to the point it's almost not playable nor enjoyable. Kinda sad how it went from being one of the top tier schools to the bottom. It would be nice if fire were playable again. I think the Efreet nerf was too extreme considering you can buy tc's that have a -90% weakness. This is pay to win and it's not right. If you wanted to nerf Efreet, you should have made it to where it's not enchantable, but nerfing the weakness on the learned spell and leaving the tc as is makes it a pay to win system that only a select few get to take advantage of considering you have to get lucky enough to find them in game.
- Ice is OP on resist and HP. That's my only concern with Ice.
The other schools seem fairly balanced now that Life can't crit heal for 6500 HP and stall to win matches.
I thought the point of making all of these changes was to balance the game but clearly, some schools still have a huge advantage over others.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Jeremy Firestaff on Sep 10, 2020 wrote:
Let me start by saying I like that there is some transparency now. This is something we've needed for a while. Thank you KI for leveling with us on some of the changes that are being implemented and your thought process behind said changes.
My main issue is with certain schools.
- Myth has essentially become undefeatable. Unless you plan on filling your deck with Aegis and set shields (which isn't practical), while spamming this the entire match, you don't stand much of a chance against Myth. When you have two OP spells, such as Mystic Colossus and Minotaur that go around shields (for the most part), there's no decent way to counter damage. Add to that Scion (which also can't be countered), you've lost instantly. Your cards don't always (and typically don't) fall the way you need them to. You cannot rely on Aegis and set shields to counter these OP spells.
- Storm needed a buff on HP but also needed a nerf on damage to balance out the difference. Instead, Storm remains super strong with plentiful HP. They also have a 2 pip OP cheat spell (Insane Bolt) that no other school has. I (somewhat) understand the idea behind this spell before the HP buff was implemented, but now, it doesn't make sense to have such a strong spell that goes around set shields. Wild Bolt is also random, nonsensical, RNG luck game play that has no place in a (supposedly) balanced system. Out of all of the Storm spells, these two spells need to be nerfed in a major way. Storm Scion is strong, but it has a decent counter with blades, unlike Myth Scion which can't be countered at all.
- Fire has been nerfed to the point it's almost not playable nor enjoyable. Kinda sad how it went from being one of the top tier schools to the bottom. It would be nice if fire were playable again. I think the Efreet nerf was too extreme considering you can buy tc's that have a -90% weakness. This is pay to win and it's not right. If you wanted to nerf Efreet, you should have made it to where it's not enchantable, but nerfing the weakness on the learned spell and leaving the tc as is makes it a pay to win system that only a select few get to take advantage of considering you have to get lucky enough to find them in game.
- Ice is OP on resist and HP. That's my only concern with Ice.
The other schools seem fairly balanced now that Life can't crit heal for 6500 HP and stall to win matches.
I thought the point of making all of these changes was to balance the game but clearly, some schools still have a huge advantage over others.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Sparck. on Sep 3, 2020 wrote:
Ben "Ratbeard" Durbin, Lead Designer on Wizard101, shares a whole bunch of details on the insight around balancing the Matchmaking and related PvP systems. Have a read:
This is the most detailed look into "secrets" and mechanics of Wizard101 PvP that has ever been published, far as I can tell. This is an essay to study.
I am astonished.
I had no idea that matchmaking was as sophisticated as it turns out to be. My imagined mental model of the matchmaking process was much simpler and less fair than it turns out to really be.
It's also really encouraging! I am flabbergasted at the amount of care Devs are taking such incredible care, putting so much work into something that every PvP player takes for granted.
Beyond the Matchmaking logic, and the coding to implement that logic, I have to give props to Ratbeard for his well-constructed essay explaining the logic.
Wow, if the Dev team is putting this level of skilled, hard, thoughtful labor into just the matchmaking for PvP, it has to be "Labor of Love." There is no other explanation.
I really enjoyed my first ten years playing this game. After reading Ratbeard's essay, I am looking forward to seeing what happens in the next ten years.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
When are -90's going to be removed from pvp? as they are extremely broken and gives players unfair advantages just because they chose to exploit the game. please fix asap
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
I've been playing wizard101 since 2009. I loved every second of it until now. Taking away enchants and weakening spells? I don't think you guys really looked at this properly because Ice wizards are already weak as is. Pvping against a jaded life with unlimited heals does not fair up with the weak spells even with shrike on, it does nothing. To make it fair a specific amount of heals should only be allowed per pvp match. Imagine having to go up against a jade life wizard with only plagues, and heals. Eventually you will run out of cards only needing to reshuffle and do the same thing over again which they will do the same. Please allow enchants for PVP, it's all about strategy as the forum said to change things up but this does not make it fair for all players. I hope you guys take this closer into consideration
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Ratbeard Diary PvP Update
I understand that low level pvp isn't a priority but I think that it is wrong to proceed without acknowledging the amount of grinding / money that was thrown into each low level ranked character. For low level pvp to hit new heights in the ranking system, deckathalon is a necessity. So the players that wanted to strive for new heights on their low level characters needed to grind for it, and we did. To get from deck 1-10 in an event was borderline impossible but from 1-9 was doable. I chose to grind out my deckathalon and spent 40 hours in one week achieving it, it was terrible but I got it. Without pre enchants on the spells that we put in the deckathalon we unfortunately will lose to wards, unless we have pierce enchanted hits, and even that is a bit of a stretch.
Loremaster: Loremaster is extremely prominent at low level pvp, even high level for that matter. To obtain ranks above 1100+ one might say that it is almost essential that each low level pvp wizard has at least one of the lore spells learned. Me personally, I spent over 100 hours grinding through lore master and farming for spells with little rest in between. I also chose to spend over 150 dollars on the keeper lore pack to pull for the luminous card and did not succeed. I ended up pulling Savage Paw and Piglets for my character and was more than thrilled to use them. This was something that I worked very hard for and never thought that I would have to fear me not being able to continue using them in ranked matches. By implementing this update it severely nerfs the potential of my lore spells, since balance school is much more utility than damage I require my pre enchants to deal mass against people that are 30 - 50 levels higher than me. Given the new system I will lose to timer every time as I simply cannot beat someone with over 3.5k health and 50 resist with my level 22 balance.
The Community The low level community as is takes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the queue on a daily basis. This is counting from levels 1-50, that I am talking about. So they take a chunk of the queue up. From what I can hear from a lot of the player base a lot of the low level ranked players are dropping out of the queue and leaving pvp. This is extremely sad to hear as pvp tends to create new communities and allow for new friends and learning experiences. With this new update it nerfs low level to a point that it has never seen before, low level content creators are choosing to leave, low level tournament leaderboard players are deciding to leave and this update doesn't seem to have nearly as many benefits as it does nerfs. Yes it does take into consideration how high level pvp players can still play but as for low level it just will not be fair for us to be taking on either this super high level players or people that can out heal and out tank for timer.
My Proposal I'm not trying to intrude on anyone or anything, this message is meant to be passive and just portray some of the main points that I have been seeing going against this new pvp update. My proposal would be at a certain level that this "new style" of pvp starts taking place. In my eyes this shouldn't be a problem as in the update notes it says that we should only be versing people that are similar to our level more/less rank. So if the matchmaking gets fixed so low levels can't face max levels we should be able to separate the types of pvp. Level 50+ they can continue to have the new update with the new enchantments like it already has. So they can still have solar surge from level 50-130 but what I propose is that pvp stays the same as it is now for low level pvp. I don't think implementing solar surge into low level would help, and here's why, low level ranked depends on using a deckathalon deck. This means that if solar surge came to low level only people using the regular decks would be permitted to use solar surge. That wouldn't make sense, then all the deckathalon players would have to do is jade against the tiny decks that non-deckathalon players would use, which wouldn't solve the issue. By reverting pvp back to its original state and capping the low level pvp from levels 1-49 or whatever skill bracket that should be chosen we can still use pre enchants and continue doing low level pvp. With high level pvp pre enchants are the entire game changer, as no one needs deckathalon decks and they have solar surge. That will work for them, but at low level it is crucial for a deckathalon deck and it is crucial for people to be able to use pre enchants.
I really hope that this is read because I think that this is something that a lot of people can relate to. KI if you're reading this I really hope that you do something to aim pvp in both a high and low level direction, there is a big low level community that still wants to play. Leaving low level pvp this naked will essentially drive away the current base of low level pvp, please don't let this happen. I really enjoy your game and I want this to be taken as best as possible.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
As their may be some slight positives to the update, it onlybenefits max lvl pvp. the update is literally killing low level pvp. A friendly suggestion would be to leasve the update as is for max lvl but revert it back to normal for low level.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Like many long time players, I enjoy low level (magus) Pvp the most as we can enjoy new pets and spells with more of the "old school" "simpler" strategies. I have high level wizards but the meta of high level PVP changes and I realize that even though once upon a time I was in the top 100 on the leaderboard in the Second Age, the game is much different now at high level and I would have difficulty staying at 500 rank.
That being said, I like the outline of the PVP changes as stated. I am curious however that my new lvl 30 balance who has been as high as 628 (ooh wow right) keeps getting matched with lvl 50 and 51 critical hitting wizards who are also Veterans. My stats say I have crit of 0. I gave a good fight in the last one but triple bladed critical Spiny? I have a zillion pets, great stats, great gear etc, but there is zero chance to win that without removing those blades and/or blocking crit. At lvl 30 on balance, neither of those is really a consistent possibility. (not enough pip chance to use quake and may cast enfeeble is like a big no from my perspective) I could carry a bunch of tc Fortify or Conviction but how can I then be aggressive with infallible that many of my pets have? I'm about to quit the game for good if I get many more matches that are unwinnable. It's not fun at that point, and fun should be the whole point.
On the flip side- I have been matched with lvl 16 on this 30 balance too. They have no chance- period. I win the pip war, bubble war, and minion war and my damage destroys them. Can we fix this?
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
What do I need to do? Like what do I need to do to actually gain some ground in pvp. I work so hard trying to get the what I see as the best gear and what I go for the most is block. I have over 600 block and yet I get crit on again and again and again, and it always seems to be shadow hits. Look I can deal with being set for, I can deal with trap stacking and minus 90 efreet, but please let block mean something. Let me give up all of my critical for block, I'll even take half of it as block. Just not this broken system, honestly I miss the system before Polaris came out, where as long as you had a double block pet (which I made about a few weeks earlier so great I got so much use of it) and I get they changed it so everyone could have a chance to critical on anyone else, but I don't need to critical, I just need to block. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Sparck. on Sep 3, 2020 wrote:
Ben "Ratbeard" Durbin, Lead Designer on Wizard101, shares a whole bunch of details on the insight around balancing the Matchmaking and related PvP systems. Have a read:
I'm glad there's a place to just say what we think. I want to start off and say THANK YOU devs so much for listening to us whine constantly and trying so hard to fix this and know that many of us see it. I'm sure you can all tell too the differences of people who (sadly) just arent good at PvP and rip on the game and blame luck (or people playing viable metas) when it's really them all along. There are people who enjoy this game and think it's all in all very fair! Yes we exist we might just be a little quieter since we have nothing to complain about. I personally loved this update. The return of actual similarities between PvE and PvP. Every aspect, PvE, PvP, the new world, everything that I don't mention in this post- I love. That being said, the things I have to critique: as most agree, Solar Surge being Veteran. I personally would do anything to see that be a purchasable TC (even if weaker) more for the sake of deck building then any meta or combat style. I still think ice needs to be nerfed. Really that's all, especially the whole Solar Surge thing. I'd love to see balancing amongst ranks as far as Solar Surge. Then I'll be willing to hit "YES" to fight higher ranked wizards;) And of course being able to hit from my off hand again while keeping this new balancing method. I like to trust though, that if the majority disagree that Devs will always go with what the masses want. I see people under appreciate updates. (ie. Everybody saying to update faces and make characters more customizable, then complaining viciously even it's done, things like that. It's all but impossible to please millions of people at once but I trust that the people who are just looking for things to complain about will be noticed as such and tuned out, and the genuine constructive criticism gets taken into consideration and what the people want is what the people get. Great job KI!
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
The Diego decision is completely flawed. This is a controversial topic that has failed to be explained. The only information we have is that Diego favors aggressive play styles and the notion of a few poorly articulated, ambiguous boxing metaphors. Since we have to accept how Diego decides matches each game, we should at least know the process. I have some theories but they never hold true. I’ve lost games when I’d dealt more damage than my opponent. I’d lost games doing more hits than my opponent. I even ran hypotheses that accounted for the healing done in a match, and still there are inconsistencies. As a player that has been involved in PvP since the beginning, I need to understand the logic here, as I’ve been disappointed in the many PvP changes that Wizard101 had undergone.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Low level pvp needs to be fixed. I used to be 2 games away from commander on my level 30 death, now I’m barely a veteran because of level 50s exploiting the match making system. This is becoming more and more common because people are noticing that it’s not being changed. This needs fixed ASAP because people are getting frustrated and starting to avoid low level pvp. This exploit ruins low level pvp and it need to be fixed can you please do something about it.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Uhh I was promethean doing promethean pvp but accidently did a shadow spell quest and now i have shadow rating. Now i am being put against level 140s with dragoon as a promethean and i think this is unfair. I guess there is no going back on the shadow pip thing but i want to know if maybe this will be fixed and i will fight other exalteds atleast??
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Dont know if this is the right place to post this idea but its in hopes it bring changes to pvp, how has no one talked about minions? Honestly. personally I believe they need to be banned from 1v1s. When I go into q for a 1v1 ranked I expect a match between me and only one other wizard, soon as a minion comes into play its a 2v1 I dont know how this has been ignored and I hope the devs read this
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Hi. I would first like to commend the team for TRYING to make pvp fair. Unfortunately it seems that you guys have forgotten lower levels. I know that you don’t consider lower levels worth your while but there are a lot of us that still enjoy it Even with all the nerds to our abilities I have sll levels of characters and have done all levels of pvp. The last 3 years I started journeyman for the first time in almost 13 years. I really enjoyed it. I still do. I do 2v2 and up because I like the team approach to pvp. It was impossible to get matches in ranked so I started doing tournaments where you are assured 4 matches. I love it. The thing is with all the new pvp changes it is impossible for a journeyman to compete against an adept. Initiates I have often seen better equipped than me and a real challenge but even from level 19 to 20 there is a big difference. In the gear and the jewels allowed and the general damage. As well as now the fact that they can use tc that are totally unavailable to lower levels. I would GREATLY APPRECIATE it if you could at least make yours uneven if there are adepts including level 20 in them. At least that allows us to make a choice. Right now a level 20 can be in the your snd it isn’t uneven. Thank you so much for listening.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
I've never really done PVP, I don't even know where to start, or what gear is best to use. I was at first so excited to see Brulee' Sucre' added and thought this was a great new spell for PVE at first. Why only for PVP? I wish I had a coach to show me on my different levels and schools how to deck set up and what gear is best. I watch Awesome and other's on youtube and think what fun this would be.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
I personally think there is so many changes needed to be made. I have already fought multiple jades in legendary pvp and there is not really a way to stop it. I feel like if you lose time on the timer for healing that would be huge benefits from this to make people actually fight instead of sitting and hiding. I also believe that the people who lost all their jewels on duelist gear should allowed to have them unsocket the jewels they either spent money on or farmed for hours on end. These are just the comments I have so far.
Re: Ratbeard Dev Diary: Matchmaking and Related PvP Changes
Please remove the double pip from Mandar or add additional stun blocks for when a player gets stunned.
In a recent post, I made a topic of being stun locked by a myth wizard because I simply could not get a turn after round three. The myth wizard doubled his pips with mandar, while upgrading his aura. He then builds buffs (enough to do 3K through a 70 set shield). At 8 pips, he uses Medusa and stuns me for two rounds, then uses aa 0 pip stun to remove the stun block given to me. After the stun block is removed, he then Mandars again upgrading his aura to a rage and proceeds to repeat the same process as before without me casting another spell. This is a completely unfair/ unjust strat being used and should not be possible. Please fix this as soon as possible.
- Myth has essentially become undefeatable. Unless you plan on filling your deck with Aegis and set shields (which isn't practical), while spamming this the entire match, you don't stand much of a chance against Myth. When you have two OP spells, such as Mystic Colossus and Minotaur that go around shields (for the most part), there's no decent way to counter damage. Add to that Scion (which also can't be countered), you've lost instantly. Your cards don't always (and typically don't) fall the way you need them to. You cannot rely on Aegis and set shields to counter these OP spells.
- Storm needed a buff on HP but also needed a nerf on damage to balance out the difference. Instead, Storm remains super strong with plentiful HP. They also have a 2 pip OP cheat spell (Insane Bolt) that no other school has. I (somewhat) understand the idea behind this spell before the HP buff was implemented, but now, it doesn't make sense to have such a strong spell that goes around set shields. Wild Bolt is also random, nonsensical, RNG luck game play that has no place in a (supposedly) balanced system. Out of all of the Storm spells, these two spells need to be nerfed in a major way. Storm Scion is strong, but it has a decent counter with blades, unlike Myth Scion which can't be countered at all.
- Fire has been nerfed to the point it's almost not playable nor enjoyable. Kinda sad how it went from being one of the top tier schools to the bottom. It would be nice if fire were playable again. I think the Efreet nerf was too extreme considering you can buy tc's that have a -90% weakness. This is pay to win and it's not right. If you wanted to nerf Efreet, you should have made it to where it's not enchantable, but nerfing the weakness on the learned spell and leaving the tc as is makes it a pay to win system that only a select few get to take advantage of considering you have to get lucky enough to find them in game.
- Ice is OP on resist and HP. That's my only concern with Ice.
Ratbeard Diary PvP Update 
