Being the professor of ice magic and a faculty of KingsIsle Entertainment, I would like to seek your guidance on a subject matter that has been creating a bit of a stir in the PvP arena.
The newest rant over on central is that ice wizards are overpowered. Many argue that ice has too much health and resist. others argue that with the Amulet of Thrugy they are a powerhouse of health, resist and now massive heals which make then unbeatable.
Some went so far as to post pictures of their new found power: warlord with zero losses.
Nesgora over on central opines that, "The reason Ice is overpowered is because of the flaw in the percent based resist system. The number is 37%, you can buy the gear in the bazaar so there isn't a reason not to have it at level 58.....A new set of arena gear that is better than Ice's level 58 gear would rebalance the arena but only, and this is import, if it is very easy to obtain."
On another thread entitled 'Ice in PvP', Penguin 101 proclaimed, "Ice is simply op. If you can't see that ice has extremely broken clothing and a overpowered level 58 spell and that they are dominating the arena, you must have something wrong with you."
Drake joins the frey and argues that, "Ice has obviously become my favorite school to pvp with for the obvious reasons this thread has stated. I actually now have three legendary ice wizards to use. I agree to the fullest that ice is overpowered."
GoHillGirl an ice wizard crumbled under the pressure and laments, "I don't want to be ashamed to be an Ice wizard, but now I get yelled at, critisized, and blamed for being an Ice wizard...I'll admit: I feel ashamed for having snow angel I feel ashamed for gargantuing my ice spells I feel ashamed for buying the best gear I could find I feel ashamed for playing PvP matches at all I feel ashamed for being Ice."
What advice do you have for those who think ice is overpowered and what words of wisdom can you impart on fellow ice wizards that are being criticized in the arena?
Not sure if Professor Greyrose will respond, but here is my take on the matter!
I will go by the gear my Ice has, as the way I see it, this is the best setup Ice can have for PvP!
A little more than 3600 Health / Mana has no regards in PvP 37% Global Resist, 28% Damage Boost, 9% Accuracy Increase! 72% Power Pip Chance with 60 critical hit points and 30 critical block add 30 more critical block if you bought the crown wand! Now, I am using the stellar signet and the cosmic kris!
Is this better than Arena Gear? Absolutely! Does this make Ice Overpowered? Not a chance! How to correct this issue is to have better arena gear introduced! Should it be easy to get? Has Arena Gear in the past been easy to get?
The main problem with PvP and complaints is that not everyone plays on the same skill level! Not everyone comes into PvP with a full blown strategy and has thought of every possible scenario!
Every part of PvP is different and played differently, 1v1 is not the same as 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 and you can not play them the same either. If you do or try to, you will surely lose!
Now, at Legendary, you have to ask yourself, what is more important to you, resists or criticals? Then you get to choose what gear you want to wear!
Now, in a 1v1 scenario, Ice has 2 DoT spells, frostbite and Snow Angel! Gargantuan can be placed on both! This does make ice formitable, but not overpowered as ice only gets a 28% damage boost!
Now, some talk about resists being Ice's bread and butter! Okay, lets talk resists! Now, Ice has 37% with gear! Now, if a person takes all the time in the world and great effort, they can get a pet with spell proof 10% and spell defy 6% taking their resist to 53%! Now, some will even lose 16% power pip chance for the hartsteel that is a crown item and adds another 5% resist, taking it to 58%. Yes, that is a lot, especially if you use a treasure fortify adding in another 20% for 4 rounds, taking you to 78%, plus tower shields and treasure tower shield!
I could almost see a dilemna! However, I give you Heck Hound @ 130 damage per pip! Add in gargantuan, plus blades, and critical that and follow up with a fire elf immediately! Sorry, but no ice with spammed shields can withstand that.
Same can be said for Death with Skeletal Dragon and Poison!
Sometimes critical is worth giving up resists! Sometimes it is not!
You have to be able to change your strategy with what is given and who you are facing.
As far as the amulets go, do they help? Well, Storm & Fire Amulets don't help as much as some say, because you can't use school specialized spells or get the boosts that storm or fire gets! Unless you craft gear, but then you lose your global resistance! Now, healing would be nice, and yes, if Ice plays as stated up above, this makes ice very difficult to beat, but not impossible. Question is, how many people actually take the time and use everything they can to boost what is given, only serious PvP players would, which is why they make Warlord!
Same can be said of any school, if they take the time and effort, any school can make it to warlord and be OverPowered!
Life does not even have to attack you, just put in all heals and shields, and minion with reshuffles, and look how hard life is to kill! It is a tactic and everyone has them. Who can outlast whom! Does this make life overpowered?
There is no Balance Shield, and Gargantuan can be used on Judgment, add in treasure feint, feint, amulet feint, and pet feint and who can live? Anyone? Does this mean Balance is overpowered?
Every school can be seen as overpowered, it is all in the eyes of the beholder!
Tell the people at Central, if they have any real data or evidence, to come talk to me, we will see how factual their information is!
Central stopped all of these postings, as they were all based on feelings. Not one (not one that I saw) really showed any facts, only what people thought. Finally Central got tired of closing all the postings, and made one posting that stated "No More Ice is overpowered or isn't postings".
Now Nico is bringing what Central stopped over to this board. This board however has people that can show facts and have proof of what they state.
I have been in many PvP fights with my Ice, and have lost quite a few. Death has taken me out, Balance has taken me out, Fire has taken me out. If Ice is overpowered, that couldn't happen, and I have Level 58 gear and crafted rings.
I won't say that in the top .1% (point 1%) that Ice does not have an advantage, but few are in that area of PvP. For 99.9%, Ice is no more overpowered that any other Wizard.
Multiple threads like this should be stopped, and only one thread should be allowed. Why, because they are a waste of time for everyone, unless the person state facts and only facts. Feelings do not prove a point in this case, and really upset way too many people.
I also want to add a quote from my friend who has left because of this "new" and drawn out arena we find ourselves in where ice is clearly dominating the arena.
To darthjt- sure there will be a few (like yourself) that can overcome this "situation" but the majority is now being affected. What might be a gear adjustment or deck change for you might be ruining the integrity of the game for the MAJORITY of people. You have to have noticed what's going on because you see the game for what it is.
To Joseph- this argument is not going away, a few threads got deleted on this subject already because of infighting. Let's keep it civil. Many people with wizards of all schools are speaking out, they have an ice wizard just like you and are trying to protect the integrity of the game. quote from wizard central thread titled goodbye pvp
Tristan wrote:
I officially quit PVP. I has been fun and I met a lot of people which I like and respect. The new life power pip amulets will make it close to impossible or a very long process to kill, especially ice wizards. The game was already unbalanced towards healing, now it is going to be totally out of control. The amulets are very unfair towards the wizard with their own healing spells like life, balance and death.
I may be back if the game gets fixed, however I doubt if it is going to happen. I will keep checking. Re: Goodbye PVP Quote: Originally Posted by Professor WinterBlossom i dont think anyone should quit something they love because a challenge came toward their way. pvp never was easy. but when it gets updated and a little hard, alot of wizards quit? thats no true pvper. Play on other than ice char to make it "a little hard" to yourself. I stopped PVPing on my ice long time ago, because it was just too easy to win. Just a joke. It is like stealing a lollipop from a baby. Some people do enjoy this, I do not blame anybody. I had very successful fire and myth chars and I know that with skill you can win.
Many of the players will realize it that with the power pip life amulets the healing capacity per pip far exceeds the damage capacity per pip, especially with resist. Mathematically speaking, now it is impossible to kill a skillful, healing ice, even by another skillful ice. You can keep overblading, infecting, it is not going to prevent them from successful healing unless you kill them with one shot or more likely, they want to lose or have to go or get bored, distracted, fall asleep, disconnected etc.
You may still kill some unskilled players, but I am talking about facing PVP elite here.
BTW I do not love PVP any more. PVP is now unbalanced, boring, random, inspired by KI $$$ greed. If someone stays in a relationship with a person possessing those qualities it is his/her choice. My choice is to leave at this point.
For all quotes you just quoted I can find just as many complaining about how Balance, Storm, etc is too overpowered. The goal is to find other school's weaknesses to exploit, not find their strengths and ask to have them changed.
Everyone assumes that the developers did not anticipate the effects of the new amulets. I seriously doubt this is the case. Much testing is done before the test realm has ever gone live. Ice wizards with life or storm secondary spells and power pip ability was intended.
darthjt: You're doing well on being better-behaved.
darthjt wrote:
The main problem with PvP and complaints is that not everyone plays on the same skill level! Not everyone comes into PvP with a full blown strategy and has thought of every possible scenario!
That's the problem in a nutshell. The additional problem is that the majority of people (perhaps 80%) either don't want to learn the advanced strategy or are incapable of learning it and using it. Most don't want to craft/trade/buy treasure cards and craft special equipment. Most don't want to learn all of the advanced tricks for the many school-vs-school situations at the various levels and in the various 1v1 to 4v4 battles. A lot of people who enjoy PvP aren't serious enough about it (or aren't able) to learn advanced strategy and tactics.
In the real world, people would be left behind. In Wizard101, assuming nothing is done, such people will eventually stop playing PvP and possibly unsubscribe from the game.
While articles by darthjt and others are undoubtedly spot-on and helpful, they don't reach a wide enough audience. It's likely that the vast majority of players and PvP players never read the forums. Many of those who do may still fall into the "this is too much trouble" or "aren't able to comprehend" categories. Again, in real life, that'd be too bad for them. But in a game, the management has to try to keep everybody happy, or they lose customers.
It seems to be conceded that among average-vs-average PvP at higher levels, Ice dominates. KingsIsle obviously can't afford to ignore the 80% who aren't advanced. On the other hand, they don't want to alienate the 20% who are. At some point, they'll probably adjust PvP. There will be large amounts of complaining when it happens. The adjustments may help balance the game out. Then people figure out which school has become overpowered. And the whole cycle starts over. The process will probably never end.
@ Colagada: Thank you! And I think your reply is spot on!
@ TravisAk: While I understand whet some people are stating and it is easy to come up with a half way decent strategy with ice, the problem I have with most posts about ice and the amulets is that they are based on feelings and not on fact!
None of your replies or the posts here or on central give actual statistics or mathmatical equations to prove their beliefs. Why, because they can't! You can not state that you can heal faster than you can damage, because that is not a fact, you can't prove that. You can however, do 10k damage a round without feints, that is a fact! I can prove it! So, even with Ice resist, ice can't live through that much damage a round!
Now, the only thing I can say, for those that want to just give up, sorry to see you go, but rank PvP was designed to test your skill against other players and if you are not good enough, you don't deserve the rank. If you cant figure out how to win, then you wont! Not trying to be harsh, but that's the truth. It can be done!
So what we are saying here is that because a lot of the average players cannot come up with a good strategy, we need to reduce the resistance or health of Ice.
Plus the Amulets makes PvP last longer, and that because of crafted gear, it harder to kill certain Wizards. Because of this, Players don't want to play the game anymore. Well life wizards have always had this ability, and could heal at this rate way before the Amulet, but now, somehow it's different.
All I can say is wow, and that this problem is not going to go way, because of an elite group of harden players that have spent hours working out strategies, and can play the game extremely well. Players that watch every spell cast and the number of pips, have a strategy to counter multiple situations, should be punished, so other less able players can win? Ok, I guess that sums it up, in a nutshell.
Why is it that my Balance can beat Ice, and has beaten many. Once I get the shields off, I can hit for 4733 or 5284 with the Judge. I have watched Fire Wizard after Fire Wizard take out Ice. I see Death beat Ice often, and I have watched many PvP fights. I see Storm, Life, Fire, and Death Warlords all the time in PvP?
Plus, over at Central, I have asked some of the Posters to meet me with their Ice wizards. I really wanted to see how many were just saying they had a Level 60 Ice, but didn't. Guess what, not one Poster took me up on meeting me, not one. Which make me think they are just trying to downgrade Ice to help their wizard.
Let's stop all of this, and ask KI for a simple listing, of each Wizard Class and how many in each, is a Warlord, Commander, etc. This will take away all of the bias, personal opinion, emotion, and wasted comments, and give us real facts to go on.
TravisAK, this will either help prove your point, or will disprove it, in one listing. According to my Dad (who use to be a programmer), it will be very easy for KI to attain this type of data and list it.
Central stopped all of these postings, as they were all based on feelings. Not one (not one that I saw) really showed any facts, only what people thought. Finally Central got tired of closing all the postings, and made one posting that stated "No More Ice is overpowered or isn't postings". actually joseph, the sheer amount of ice isn't or is to powerful threads Now Nico is bringing what Central stopped over to this board.
This board however has people that can show facts and have proof of what they state.we're becoming to plentiful, meaning it is a very hot topic over there. If you look closely at the thread it says those interested can find the discussion here (underlined link). The moderator, onion knight is part of the discussion so I suggest you do more research before posting things that are fals
Well, if it makes you feel any better, a couple months ago, everyone was complaining that Balance is too strong. And I think before that, it was Storm that was too strong. It depends on who is winning and who is losing. I got to see some folks lose a match, and the first thing they did was complain that they would have won if they had gotten to go first. I'm Balance, and I have yet to win against Storm. The game was designed so that each school has their strengths and their weaknesses. And when players finally figure out that there truly is no "overpowered" school, then the competitiveness will fizzle for them.
I can’t believe I have not responded to this post since I created it. My apologies.
@ Darthjt, I have to agree with you; not everyone plays on the same level and the strong will always overpower the weak, regardless of stats. Funny enough I loose more on my ice than I do on my fire and I always loose against fire but my fire rarely loose against ice.
@ Lion359, I had no idea that central stopped those postings over there. They certainly weren’t stopped when I created this thread and I didn’t see any other thread on here purporting that ice is overpowered or anything to that effect. If there now is then they were created after I created this. I have checked the threads on central where I quoted arguments from and they are still open so am not sure where you got your information from. Furthermore, people are free to air their grouses as long as they remain respectful. If you have something to contribute to the discussion then do so. If things are getting out of hand then am sure Roland or Zeke or somebody will jump in and close the thread. Everyone start a thread for their own reason and people chose to respond or ignore.
@ travisAK, you know what’s funny, I had chosen not to PvP because of certain issues that I felt needed to be straightened out but the main reasons were the rude behavior of people and the fact that PvP complaints often resulted in spells being modified. Now, I went back into the arena this week because I saw where ice was being brought before the courts. I tested my ice wizard in the arena and he was at no greater advantage than any other player. Oddly enough, I see people with life force blades but I have only seen ONE person with a life amulet and she was myth. Now if I’m fighting an average 15 matches per day for a week and only encountered one person with an amulet, that’s saying something. People are acting like every Ice wizard has bought life amulets and are healing and shielding and dominating the arena. This is not true. I’m afraid Tristan quit because his old strategies failed him.
Funny enough I find that balance is the most difficult. When I duel on my fire, I never get my towers and I don’t use weakness and so in two rounds and dead by a critical judge but I just hope that I don’t meet a lot of balance or that my towers show when I do. Other than that I just pray that they fiz or something. Balance can still pretty much dominate you if you are not a weakness/tower spammer. Especially now that people are focusing on ice, when you meet up on a balance wiz, it’s an almost sure lost especially if you go second.
Point of fact, I dueled an ice wizard today on my fire, I went second and I still won. Granted I am better at dueling on my fire but that goes to show that if you are a good duelist on any of your wizards then you will overcome any challenge.
@ Kingurz, I couldn’t agree with you more. People are acting like Falmea and her team just throws stuff in without testing and balancing. I find the sort of insinuation to be disingenuous. I know that KI have a responsible set of people working on this game and if something is unbalanced then they just come right out and say, we have listened, done some testing and realized that this thing is unbalanced and so we have made these changes.
Some people just talk through their teeth and say I quit because of this or that but they are still logging in to check plants and level pets lol and they are the first ones on test realm checking stuff out. I pay little attention to people who say they are going to quit unless I think they have a valid point.
@ Colagada like you said, complaints are a never-ending cycle. There is nothing KI can do about it. I have stated before that you CANNOT please everybody, the best KI can do is act in the best interest of all; even those who do not realize that it is in their own best interest. New content usually quell old complaints and spark new ones and people forget that the old problem still exists lol
IvoryJade is right, whichever school is winning the most in the arena, then people say that school is overpowered. The only school that I think would be at a greater disadvantage to ice is storm and that is simply because of the health difference.
Being the professor of ice magic and a faculty of KingsIsle Entertainment, I would like to seek your guidance on a subject matter that has been creating a bit of a stir in the PvP arena.
The newest rant over on central is that ice wizards are overpowered. Many argue that ice has too much health and resist. others argue that with the Amulet of Thrugy they are a powerhouse of health, resist and now massive heals which make then unbeatable.
Some went so far as to post pictures of their new found power: warlord with zero losses.
Nesgora over on central opines that, "The reason Ice is overpowered is because of the flaw in the percent based resist system. The number is 37%, you can buy the gear in the bazaar so there isn't a reason not to have it at level 58.....A new set of arena gear that is better than Ice's level 58 gear would rebalance the arena but only, and this is import, if it is very easy to obtain."
On another thread entitled 'Ice in PvP', Penguin 101 proclaimed, "Ice is simply op. If you can't see that ice has extremely broken clothing and a overpowered level 58 spell and that they are dominating the arena, you must have something wrong with you."
Drake joins the frey and argues that, "Ice has obviously become my favorite school to pvp with for the obvious reasons this thread has stated. I actually now have three legendary ice wizards to use. I agree to the fullest that ice is overpowered."
GoHillGirl an ice wizard crumbled under the pressure and laments, "I don't want to be ashamed to be an Ice wizard, but now I get yelled at, critisized, and blamed for being an Ice wizard...I'll admit: I feel ashamed for having snow angel I feel ashamed for gargantuing my ice spells I feel ashamed for buying the best gear I could find I feel ashamed for playing PvP matches at all I feel ashamed for being Ice."
What advice do you have for those who think ice is overpowered and what words of wisdom can you impart on fellow ice wizards that are being criticized in the arena?
Looking forward to a favorable response.
Respectfully,
Logan Frost, Student of Ice
lolz srsly telling ice NOT to use shields get big health use their abilities they have is like well, telling GRASS NOT TO GROW! LOINS NOT TO ROAR! an it like telling storm to do weak attacks i personally am a level 60 ice wizard and well i actually kinda glad to finally hear some people say that ice is a school that powerful! i for one in pvp ( before i knew all this) often heard people saying stuff like " dont worry ice is weak " or "weak" and this other person did have a good point ice really does need shields big health resistance that is the whole point to balance out its inner weakness. another thing is that remember how storm always had such terrible accurcey? that all changed as now storm is pretty acurate because of new cl gear. i have seen that at cl level most schools have overcome their inner weakness that they had in the begining. that is what is happenimng with ice. i will explain how i ( as an ice wizard ) have mostly overcome ice's weakness for attacking. well, as a lot of people do i use gargantaun to power up my snow angel. another thing is that i for one went with cl crafted gear ( but cl 558 ice shoes) i did this because one i wanted bigger critical power and 2 it gives me attack boost 33% or 32% ( like an automatic trap whenever i attack) also i use a crafted amulet ( 45% iceblade card ) and i put vengeance in my deck of course. i like most also use elemental blade along with school bkade ( if i find in my hand at the time ) i think the reason for this argument is that ice had its resist and health BUT!, ....... THEN when snow angel came and cl ( ya ya bigger resistance and health) but then with gargantaun and crafted blade amulet AND critical and block ice wizards like me also started to overcame ice's weakness for attack. ( like storm and accurecy) that when people MIGHT have started saying stuff like "dont give ice ANOTHER deadly snow angel" exacly my point here is that just like most schools ice is starting to overcome its weakness and people dont like it cause ice isnt as weak as it used to be. that may be a reason why people are sooooooo upset well, like i said most of the other schools started to overcome their weakness too. each school is different people please try to reaspect these differences i mean how would you like it if people started saying "storm got too acurate and it too powerfull make it weak and bad acurate" i dont think any storm wizards or fire wizards would like to hear that said about their school. each school had its starting weakness then most overcame it or started to. that is what i think happened to ice when it got even bigger resist and health and started to overcome its weakness.
I do apologize, I did not clearly state what I meant, I did have the facts straight in my head, it just didn't get to the post. What I meant to say, is that they limited it to one Posting for all threads. They stopped multiple postings and forced it into on Section. Plus, just because a Moderator is involved in the discussion, it is just one more wizard's point of view.
I did read a lot of the postings at Central, but I did not see any facts that proved this topic one way or the other. (I did skip alot, as they started off with the "I feel" or something close to that). Saying what happen in a Tournament, that is limited in size, again means very little to me. People stating what happened in one battle or any battle that they were in, means very little to me. Some girl saying she is ashamed of being an Ice wizard makes me grin, if not laugh. If it can not be proven by numbers, I discard it as non fact.
I stand by my posting asking KI to give a list of the number of Wizards in each Class. Then second, they could list the Number of Warlords, Commanders, etc for each Class. They could also break out a separate section of the top 5%, to help with that area, which could be different from the rest. Finally, they could post this on this site, and then have it automatically or manually updated once every six months.
If the mumbers are posted, please look at the percentages, and not just the numbers. If you have 4 million Ice Wizards and 1 million Storm wizards, and the Ice has four times as many Warlords, this will be expected.
Finally, over the weekend, I watch PvP for several hours, and in the top 1v1 battles, I saw a 6 to 1 ratio of Fire over Ice. A four to 1 ratio of Balacne over Ice. Please remember, I use my Balance Wizard more than my Ice Wizards. I firmly beleive that if the numbers are posted, it will show just how balanced the Wizards really are.
Some people don't like the blade spamming one hit arena we've been thrusted into. That is the great strategy everyone must learn to defeat ice? Three feints and you can easily defeat Ice, or you can stack every known blade to your school they might not heal it off. Here's some numbers
Two rounds: first round treasure guiding light (40%) Second round satyr with crafted ring and Athame heals for around 2500
Now somebody give me a two power pip equation that will equal 2500 health points of damage? Will you add critical? Seeing as how critical is a luck based strategy it won't hit every time, maybe every third time if you're "lucky". I'm not even going to bring spritely into this
Give me one two power pip combo that will show that the capacity to heal is not greater per pip as the capacity to do damage? What? Feint bolt? Lol. Then give me one for every school!
Then I ask you again, is the healing per pip greater
I think Slime24 is right; as we advance in level and our powers increase, one will find that the schools will gradually overcome their weaknesses. This really does not or should not change the landscape of dueling. The point is ICe will always have more health than everybody else while storm, will have the highest attack percentages.
So no matter how powerful we get, there can be no quality amoungst the schools in terms of power. I am still winning against ice in the arena on my fire whether i go first or second. Fire and ice is balanced out i guess and so fire have the advantage.
Now you can disagree with me here but here is my analysis.
Ice has 37% resist vs Fire 35% resist to ice Ice has an average 3750 health vs Fire average 2750 health Ice has 28% boost vs Fire 46% boost Ice has 9% accuracy vs fire 23% accuracy
NOTE: i put average health because ice and fire have low base power pip percentages and different wizards may chose the amount of health vs power pip chance according to their liking. So the health fluctuates.
So if a fire wiz goes up against ice, I would say that their damage boost would cancel out the 1000 health points difference and their ability to use DOT spells will take care of the towers. Also don't forget a well timed Efreet will nulify that snow angel, no matter how buffed up it is.
The only school that I think is at a major disadantage against ice is Storm. Now if wild bolt wasn't so wild they would still be the dominant school in PVP.
Lion359, I think you may not have articulated yourself well in your previous post and the arguments that i put forward in the OP is empirical evidence that people are complaining about ICE. It is the common practice on central to close threads that mimick ones that have already been posted. If someone made a thread that says "The pet rock was a Joke gone bad" and then another person make a similiar thread, " Do you think the Pet Rock was a bad joke?" Then a moderator would close the second thread and refer the OP to the first thread. So the closing of threads is not confined to the "ice is overpowered" controversy.
I think most of the complaints comes from centralites that do ladder macthes or PVP tournaments. Obviously those people who particpate already knows what school their opponent is from and so they tailor their decks to counter yours. They will have a strategy for going first or second and trust me if you are not good, you will loose.
Most people are saying the amulets makes them overpowered but if they plan to heal, then you can't keep attacking and that's the mistake most people make. If i see someone heals or their pet cast two sprites (very annoying). I just wait until the sprites are no longer on the person. I take this time to shield, buff or heal. It's better not to use up your pips because you want to be able to attack with at least a rank 6 and 7 spell in two successive rounds.
The only school i really have a challenge with is balance because treasure towers are very scarce in the bazaar these days and without towers balance will just shield and shield and just use a gar on judge and end the duel.
I still haven't seen an ice wizard with any amulet of any kind.
Your post proved one thing to me, without question, that Ice is no longer overpowered. Ice's big attack is a DOT time and just as TravisAK points out, this can easily be countered now with the Life Amulet.
So all of the complaints of Ice being over Powered has been answered by KI. They have now made Ice unable to defeat their oppenent, while Storm, Fire, Balance and Myth now have a huge advantage over Ice with their huge single attack spells. I'm more than happy, that I brought up my Balance Wizard now, as I can retire my useless Ice.
The Ice Warlord will be a thing of the past, in the time to come. No Strategy is now needed, just Blade up, keeps the shields off of Ice, use Infection and a few other spells, then use Satyr as needed, and hit Ice with the one big crushing hit. What can Ice do in return with it big DOT spell, nothing.
All the complaints have brought this type of PvP upon us. Now all the complainers can enjoy it, I may not.
Ok, finally some statistical data, yet easily overcome!
First off, Satyr with a 40% healing boost only does 2385 with the cosmic kris athame and the stellar signet, which you posted as the ring and athame an Ice wizard will wear during pvp! This then gives the Ice only a 72% power pip chance! Seriously lowering the ability to get those easy 4 pip Satyr heals that you claim can't be beaten. Also, that also means, the Ice wizard will have spent 1000 crowns on the Life Amulet and then given up on the crafted amulet for the +45% Ice Blade!
Now, given you so called strategy of who can possibly do 2385 points of damage in 2 rounds 4 power pips, not many schools can, without blades! So, that is like comparing Apples to a Boat! They are totally different!
So yes, when you want to look at it where that is all you get is 2 turns, wildbolt is the only one that could hit for that much damage! Hence the reasons for blades, shields, traps, global spells, critcials, etc! You can't take one aspect and look at it the way you want! If you take your scenario, ice could never ever kill anyone, including storm, so what good would your complaint be then?
Then, some people say they use heartsteel instead of one of the crafted rings to get an extra 5% global resist, but that will lose another 16% power pip chance! See how things deteriorate when people decide to do things? It makes it that much easier to kill them and that much harder for them to kill you!
People need to quit assuming the worst and stop looking at things in a negative light or that the glass is now half empty, no the glass if completely full, if you stop looking at it from the top down! There are choices for everyschool, great perks, excellent spells, learn to use them! Complaining is not getting people anywhere, except defeated in their own mind!
Well as always someone will find a way to overcome it. Just like with storm, just like with balance someone will make a brakethrough. Then people will move on.
This whole discussion STILL hinges on advanced play.
I'll be the first to concede that Ice is not overpowered in advanced-vs-advanced play. But I'd also venture that NO school is overpowered in advanced-vs-advanced play. With perfect play, no school is going to dominate in the 10-20% of the players who can play advanced PvP.
Now what do we do about the other 80-90% of PvP players?
Few have crafted equipment.
Few have the many treasure cards, crafted, traded, and/or bought.
Few have learned the spell combinations needed.
Few understand all of the advanced strategies.
And darned few will buy the amulets costing 9,950 Crowns.
For THOSE players, Ice is seriously overpowered. I know that because all of these people complaining about the same school, and all the records of PvP players without or with very few losses, can't all be fabricated (made up).
You folks can all talk about advanced combat, and you may well be right, but that doesn't help the other 80%+.
This game isn't programmed for the super-elite minority. It's programmed for the average or below-average vast majority, while TRYING to also offer something to the elite. KingsIsle isn't likely to sit by and let those 80% who can't overcome Ice's superiority in average play get so angry that many cancel their subscriptions. They'll try to even things out for the average people, while keeping the elite happy. It's a daunting task, and I don't envy the staff the job of solving it.
Well, I mostly agree with you. Advanced PvP players can overcome any obstacle.
I also agree that only a few will have; crafted gear, crafted rings & athames, the new amulets, a pet with spritely, spell proof, spelly defy, and another good talent! These are Serious Advanced PvP players that take that much time and effort to get any upper hand they can in PvP!
So, you are right, 80% to 90% will not have all of these bonuses and enhancements!
Now, how many complain that ice is overpowered and how many disagree and state that ice is not overpowered? It is not 80% of the people, that is for sure! Even if you say half, which if you follow the posts, is giving them probably double what the percentage actually is!
The main problem that most people have, is that their hard earned commander gear is now obsolete! People want new Arena Gear! Which, I am sure, in time will come! And then, you will be right again, cause people will complain about that gear being too powerful!
Oh well, what's a person to do? The whole problem is, you can't make everyone happy! If they change Ice, they will seriously upset a lot of players! If they don't change ice, then they need to increase the arena gear so that the average or normal player will be happy, or again, they will lose players. So, in my opinion, that is what they need to do and do it quickly, make new arena gear, then atleast things will somewhat quiet down!
Colegada, you're missing my point here. I watched a match between a skilled ice (1246) using life amulet vs another skilled Ice (1350+) using a life amulet. When I asked how long the battle was going for they said eight hours and joked about it. There was an audience that was half amazed by the length of the battle and half dissapointed because they saw it coming.
who has eight hours to get nowhere in a pvp battle these days? Five reshuffles later you have to wonder who's going to quit first. It's also becoming quite ridiculous for elite players who understand the game and understand combo's and advanced strategy. At high levels it's a matter of overblading for the one hit knockout or your damage will be healed off easily.
Remember, both wizards in the described duel were stacking blades, had pets bred for pvp and understood their school and pvp mechanics. These are a few from you 20% that are being affected by conditions in the arena.
This game isn't programmed for the super-elite minority. It's programmed for the average or below-average vast majority, while TRYING to also offer something to the elite. KingsIsle isn't likely to sit by and let those 80% who can't overcome Ice's superiority in average play get so angry that many cancel their subscriptions. They'll try to even things out for the average people, while keeping the elite happy. It's a daunting task, and I don't envy the staff the job of solving it.
Have to agree with ya there colgada, not everybody craft this and that just for PvP because i sure don't. I loathe having to buy TCs for PvP. my gold could be better spent else where but the reality is without treasure cards, you will have a 30/70 win lost ratio and can never advance in PvP.
I think KI needs rules for PvP just like they have over on central otherwise this thing will become a monster overtime and people will get fed up.
We could argue that PvP is a side thing but it is no longer. Everyone wants to be a warlord and it shouldn't be impossible. But PvP is for rich folks. I dare anyone to challenge me on that.
here is my empirical evidence:
a life force blade cost 5500 crowns (or is it 5000?) a mastery amulet cost 9950 crowns there are other crown gear at lower levels that put them above the have-nots
there are the crown pets with epic slots all cost over 5000 crowns
so basically if you cannot afford the perks which give you the edge in PvP you will not advance, no matter how good you are. Try landing a critical on one of those guys with life force blades. Its next to impossible. but you get hit with criticals because you do not have as much block as they do.
its not the schools that are over-powered per se, its the players with the ability to buy power.
I met one of those ice wizards yesterday with the life mastery amulet. The match lasted so long until i almost ran out of cards. I lost simply because i went second, trust me.
it was very annoying but i didn't consider my opponent over-powered, I just didn't have a deck set-up to fight that strategy plus i went second. i had some treasure -50% heal cards and i won our bubble war lol but the going second hampered me quite a bit because she had time to remove efreet's weaknesses and had time to use a sprite, things like that.
I knew i would have won had i gone first.
Anyways, i firmly believe that you should see what school your opponent is BEFORE you accept the challenge to go into the arena that way you can have a decent battle.
We can talk about skill and strategy until kingdom come but there is NO way you can plant for all seven schools using one deck. We NEED to know our opponents' school!
Winning PvP requires a small deck and reshuffle because you need to get your cards when you need them but with not knowing your opponent you cannot use a small deck effectively because that will limit your powers when you meet up on the different schools. There is no one-fix-all strategy.
Anyways, aside from that darthjt is also right. people keep adding on stuff that don't make sense. You cannot say ice can use crafted amulet that gives blade and then say same ice wizard is wearing life mastery amulet! You cannot wear 2 amulets at once lol. Furthermore, if ice use the crafted rings and athames then they loose about 300 health points. Some rings and athames also does not give power pips so i mean they usually have ot give up something for something. But people keep piling stuff on like they can wear two of everything at the same time!!
Anyways i thing the key to fixing this PvP thing is putting rules in place and also letting you see your opponent's school before the match.
And please don;t say you are given an option to enter the arena or decline because on what grounds can you decline when you don't know who you fighting?
travisAK: I didn't miss your point. You're referring to skilled PvP players. I'm referring to the 80-90% who are not. Most players won't get a school mastery amulet, most won't breed pets for PvP, most won't stack treasure-card blades. KingsIsle isn't going to fix the game to suit 20% and drive off 80%. They'll try to find a solution that satisfies both groups. I wish them luck on that daunting task.
This game isn't programmed for the super-elite minority. It's programmed for the average or below-average vast majority, while TRYING to also offer something to the elite. KingsIsle isn't likely to sit by and let those 80% who can't overcome Ice's superiority in average play get so angry that many cancel their subscriptions. They'll try to even things out for the average people, while keeping the elite happy. It's a daunting task, and I don't envy the staff the job of solving it.
Have to agree with ya there colgada, not everybody craft this and that just for PvP because i sure don't. I loathe having to buy TCs for PvP. my gold could be better spent else where but the reality is without treasure cards, you will have a 30/70 win lost ratio and can never advance in PvP.
I think KI needs rules for PvP just like they have over on central otherwise this thing will become a monster overtime and people will get fed up.
We could argue that PvP is a side thing but it is no longer. Everyone wants to be a warlord and it shouldn't be impossible. But PvP is for rich folks. I dare anyone to challenge me on that.
here is my empirical evidence:
a life force blade cost 5500 crowns (or is it 5000?) a mastery amulet cost 9950 crowns there are other crown gear at lower levels that put them above the have-nots
there are the crown pets with epic slots all cost over 5000 crowns
so basically if you cannot afford the perks which give you the edge in PvP you will not advance, no matter how good you are. Try landing a critical on one of those guys with life force blades. Its next to impossible. but you get hit with criticals because you do not have as much block as they do.
its not the schools that are over-powered per se, its the players with the ability to buy power.
I met one of those ice wizards yesterday with the life mastery amulet. The match lasted so long until i almost ran out of cards. I lost simply because i went second, trust me.
it was very annoying but i didn't consider my opponent over-powered, I just didn't have a deck set-up to fight that strategy plus i went second. i had some treasure -50% heal cards and i won our bubble war lol but the going second hampered me quite a bit because she had time to remove efreet's weaknesses and had time to use a sprite, things like that.
I knew i would have won had i gone first.
Anyways, i firmly believe that you should see what school your opponent is BEFORE you accept the challenge to go into the arena that way you can have a decent battle.
We can talk about skill and strategy until kingdom come but there is NO way you can plant for all seven schools using one deck. We NEED to know our opponents' school!
Winning PvP requires a small deck and reshuffle because you need to get your cards when you need them but with not knowing your opponent you cannot use a small deck effectively because that will limit your powers when you meet up on the different schools. There is no one-fix-all strategy.
Anyways, aside from that darthjt is also right. people keep adding on stuff that don't make sense. You cannot say ice can use crafted amulet that gives blade and then say same ice wizard is wearing life mastery amulet! You cannot wear 2 amulets at once lol. Furthermore, if ice use the crafted rings and athames then they loose about 300 health points. Some rings and athames also does not give power pips so i mean they usually have ot give up something for something. But people keep piling stuff on like they can wear two of everything at the same time!!
Anyways i thing the key to fixing this PvP thing is putting rules in place and also letting you see your opponent's school before the match.
And please don;t say you are given an option to enter the arena or decline because on what grounds can you decline when you don't know who you fighting?
well i halfway agree on the comment about rich folk and pvp, if you are olaying to win, playing to get to warlord. then yes rich folk basically have a monster advantage over us, but if you are playing to have fun, to make friends, to get a good challenge, then anyone can be join anyone can play, not just the rich folks.
life force blade-(btw 5000) you can go without it, yea its really annoying that they block all my criticals, but so what? i rarely even get a critical, and i dont depend on it. mastery amulets- i have patience, i am waiting for wt to come out so i can farm. you can farm for most the epic crowned pets. (as greyrose said somewhere else- anything that doesnt give a shortcut to the game will be available to farm, or something like that, its just the jist of it)
agreed about the schools not overpowered but the players.
about the battle with ice. it seems like fire is the best school going against an ice.
what happens when someone has a bunch of treasure shields, oh storm i will put a bunch in here, it may not matter for fire, but for those schools who have a hard time nocking shields off(aka all of the others) it will be a nighmare if they knew what school they were before the battle started.
it seems like some people on these boards havent heard the old proverb(i think its that) every rose has a thorn.
but all in all you can have all the strategy you want, but in the end there is no real subsitute for real money.
i personally am a level 60 ice wizard and well i actually kinda glad to finally hear some people say that ice is a school that powerful! i for one in pvp ( before i knew all this)